Planned Development Games

[Meisseli]

you can already toggle it with some clever binds:

Code:

seta sprinton "+button8;set togglesprint vstr sprintoff"
seta sprintoff "-button8;set togglesprint vstr sprinton"
vstr sprintoff
bind <key> "vstr togglesprint"

Of course you can do it with scripts... but what does that solve? That every hundredth player can use dodge effectively?

Anyone skilled enough to be a useful basilisk in 1.1 could always be of considerably more worth to their team with a higher class. And I hardly think it's "the best alien there is" now.

That regen pretty much makes it the best alien there is. Of course booster and creep help counter this but I'd rather see no-regen basis.

[kevlarman]

you can already toggle it with some clever binds:

Code:

seta sprinton "+button8;set togglesprint vstr sprintoff"
seta sprintoff "-button8;set togglesprint vstr sprinton"
vstr sprintoff
bind <key> "vstr togglesprint"

Of course you can do it with scripts... but what does that solve? That every hundredth player can use dodge effectively?

Anyone skilled enough to be a useful basilisk in 1.1 could always be of considerably more worth to their team with a higher class. And I hardly think it's "the best alien there is" now.

That regen pretty much makes it the best alien there is. Of course booster and creep help counter this but I'd rather see no-regen basis.

i've played with no regen basi, it was painful. if you took any hits at all from any human weapon, you had to retreat to the nearest booster immediately or you were dead. without the aura, basilisks have by far the lowest rate of regeneration relative to their max hp.

[Repatition]

I just played on the Dev server!
I like the way you can move around as dretch through human base!
but i don't like the new deconstruction thing its " iffy"

I also dont like how slow you heal as alein away from creep.

[Asvarox]

We had some nice games yesterday (even if Cadynum kept pwning me >> ), I'd like to say gg

I was thinking, since we have holidays, if it's possible to have 2 Planned Dev games in a week. We could have bonus one in Wednesday. We could also make Saturday games only at US Dev server, and Wednesday at Eu Dev server (some people have to work and 19GMT is evening for most countries in EU). It'd be great boost for 1.2 Development (moar balance data) and people would have more fun in a week (1.2 IS funnier than 1.1 (bleh))

[your face]

(1.2 IS funnier than 1.1 (bleh))

Yeah. :\

I like some of the stuff that's been done, but I think they're overdoing it.

[Repatition]

well as far as models and HUD i love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nux]

I did have more fun on mgdev than on standard 1.1 public games. This could be for a number of reasons:

*If the MGdev changes make the game more fun generally, it would be more fun for me.

*If the game differs in any way from the game I've played thousands of times before, it would probably make the game fresh and challenging to adjust to, which would make it more fun for me.

*If your average player on MGdev is of a higher standard than 1.1 public games, it would probably make the game more interesting and so more fun for me. (Bear in mind that a team full of noobs can make a game far more challlenging but not necessarily more interesting).

I've a feeling all of these reasons played a part in it but mostly the last two. I don't yet know if the changes are better. I'd need to see how games with the same players on both 1.1 and 1.2 would compare. To this end it would be neat to hold some scrim-like games on each and now that I have the time on my hands I'd love to do so ASAP.

If you're interested in playing please let me know. It doesn't have to be clans playing against each other but it would be nice to hold clan matches too.

[khalsa]

Howdy,

Just like to step in and say any non 1.2-development-testing-server related feedback put in this thread will be promptly split off into the feedback forum. What's in here now stays, beyond that I'll be patrolling this thread with an iron fist from now on.


Re: Second weekly planned games - generally we like to have a dev in the games as much as possible to help get a feel for balance issues and to discover bugs. Unfortunately I don't think niether myself nor Norfenstien can commit any further time for this. However, if you guys express even a tad bit more support (in fact I'll start a second thread with a poll for this and link to it here in a moment) for a second planned game, just getting more feedback and stats would be totally worth it.

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=11336

Khalsa

[jal]

I also dont like how slow you heal as alein away from creep.

That's probably the best change of all the changes made since 1.0

[Nux]

We've just started an unofficial game over on the euro server and we're hoping to get some clan-like games going asap.

Please if you read this don't hesitate to join. Any MGdev admin assistance would be appreciated.

[amz181]

We've just started an unofficial game over on the euro server and we're hoping to get some clan-like games going asap.

Please if you read this don't hesitate to join. Any MGdev admin assistance would be appreciated.

IM GUNNA COME PWN YOU NAO!

[Nux]

Many thanks to all who attended! The bitter rivalry between '/clan' and team '{Sux}' fueled the fires of a furious battle which climaxed in a somewhat serious bit of fun.

I personally hope to have more games like it and perhaps next time we could get some actual clans in to better compare the types of teamplay in MGdev and 1.1.

PS: Thanks again Khalsa for helping us out. Really appreciate it.

[janev]

Like Nux suggested more team vs team games with cooperating teams would give valuable data. The 1.2 PCW with Italians vs Scandinavians was fun but not necessarily accurate since many of the players were not familiar with the most current 1.2 gameplay changes nor did they have up-to-date configs. For future games where you are looking at the team vs team aspects it might be good to get a few teams together that do not change in order for them to adjust to the gameplay. For example dodge and sprint were not used to their full capacity since not everyone had changed their .cfg.

Another interesting thing to see would be how well the balance settings hold up with players that are less capable than the boys and girls you usually see on the development servers. I do not think there are many players there that have played less than 1 year or a few hundred games. Yet the majority of tremulous players would probably fall into this sort of casual gamer category. My point is how well will reduced regeneration for aliens really work with "normal" players who lack coordination? How frustrating will playing dretch be for the aforementioned normal players? Any ideas?   

[F50]

The only thing is that "normal" players aren't as likely to enter a "development" server, particularly one running more maps than just ATCS amd even some nonstandard ones like nano or sector 17 (*gasp*). If we want newbies, how about setting the map (semi-permanently) to ATCS on one of the development servers?

[David]

People never take me seriously when I suggest making them no-name servers
Also, if it's only ATCS then we won't get very good data .

[FreaK]

The only thing is that "normal" players aren't as likely to enter a "development" server, particularly one running more maps than just ATCS amd even some nonstandard ones like nano or sector 17 (*gasp*). If we want newbies, how about setting the map (semi-permanently) to ATCS on one of the development servers?

Newbies should learn other maps beside atcs, just because you're a newbie doesn't mean you can't learn new maps.

[A Spork]

Exactly.
To Be Honest, when I was still really new, I actually Enjoyed other maps much more than ATCS. I just find it boring.
But Its definitely a good Idea to try and get some more normal games going IMHO

[FreaK]

Exactly.
To Be Honest, when I was still really new, I actually Enjoyed other maps much more than ATCS. I just find it boring.
But Its definitely a good Idea to try and get some more normal games going IMHO

Yeah, when i first started playing every server had map rotations and actually played custom maps ( ) now every server is atcs only, modified or unlimited BP. 

[borsuk]

I have an idea for new kind of playtesting game.
I have suspicions that S1 may be unbalanced in aliens' favour. In S1 aliens seem to have an upper hand, because dragoons can deal terrifying damage, humans don't have helmets or better weapons. This may lead to aliens reaching S2 faster. My suggestion - let's play some games that start in S2 and see if it affects balance in a meaningful way. It may be possible to isolate the issue.

[Nux]

We're rounding people up again for a second day of gaming

This time it would be nice to get a real clan to face the gradually forming {Sux} clan.

Also we hope to use one of the US servers this time to be fair to all the Americans who were good enough to play with bigger pings last time.

Any admin assistance would be appreciated as always.

[Sayeru]

I have an idea for new kind of playtesting game.
I have suspicions that S1 may be unbalanced in aliens' favour. In S1 aliens seem to have an upper hand, because dragoons can deal terrifying damage, humans don't have helmets or better weapons. This may lead to aliens reaching S2 faster. My suggestion - let's play some games that start in S2 and see if it affects balance in a meaningful way. It may be possible to isolate the issue.

Well It happens only when human team is unorganised. Most times its like: Humans kill about 10 dretches with few deaths, when aliens have dragoons and marauders the human team is already (or almost) on stage2, this is typical euro clan war scenario. Including unlagged THIS looks unbalanced.

That's why we should: Increase detches power and decrease basilisk and marauder power.

[A Spork]

Ummm Why?
Dretches already have plenty of power(Mind you, I haven't played on the dev serv lately, so I could be wrong) and it should be Goons, if anything that get a decrease in power. Maras and Lisks dont get used much anyways, and nerfing them would make them even less popular

[your face]

All aliens are fine, just nerf the rant or something.

[Sayeru]

Dretchies doesn't have enough power comparing to rifle man.  Dev server or normal 1.1 games - doesn't matter.

Goon range actually is a lot shorter but yeah, I don't like thing that it kills armored human with helmet with 2 chomps.

Adv.Mara need about 2 sec to kill human with arm/helm, also it has better jump (easy to stay on target and climb) and longer claw range.
Lisa gas can kill everything with good team (as you know, gas slows down hummans), also longer swipe, ability to health... should I say more?

//Damn I would like to post some demos to prove my rights but actually I don't have any. :s

[kevlarman]

marauders have always had less range than goons, and still do.

[Norfenstein]

US Server game in 50 minutes.

Only balance change this weak:

• Dretch damage reduced from 40 to 36.
• Dretch repeat reduced from 700 to 500

[Pedobear]

Dretchies doesn't have enough power comparing to rifle man.  Dev server or normal 1.1 games - doesn't matter.

Dretches are over powered. in 1.1, not sure about 1.2. Dretches in 1.1 can nearly instantly kill an unarmoured human (no helm) and can, if skilled, can kill a Armoured or even Bsuit human. I've killed luci suits with dretches before. It all depends on the skill of both players. Newb Rifles vs Newb Dretches = Rifle wins. If both are skilled, dretch will usually win.

[Nux]

Newb Rifles vs Newb Dretches = Rifle wins. If both are skilled, dretch will usually win.

Nah. It's the other way around.

[mooseberry]

Newb Rifles vs Newb Dretches = Rifle wins. If both are skilled, dretch will usually win.

Nah. It's the other way around.

The fact that you two can argue about this, (and other situations I have seen) mean that either a.) the trem devs will have a hell of a time balancing, b.) they are both actually so evenly balanced already that there is no way to tell, c.) one of you is an idiot who should try to play some tremulous b4 posting, ROGL, d.) all of the above, or e.) other.

[Nux]

I wouldn't call 1 assertion and 1 contradiction an argument but if you'd like more detail:

Noob rifleman vs Noob dretch
The rifleman can't aim consistently, wastes a full clip in one go not hitting much and has trouble keeping his distance from the dretch. The dretch moves in straight lines a lot of the time but has his handy in-built triggerbot to do the firing when he get's close enough.

My money's on the dretch.


Pro rifleman vs Pro dretch
The rifleman CAN aim consistently, conserves his ammo and is very good at staying at a safe distance. The dretch can move around in an unpredictable motion or ambush the human, aiming for the head when the opportunity arises.

Since the rifleman can keep that opportunity from arising fairly effectively and pick off the dretches from his safe distance, I'd go with the rifleman.