Planned Development Games

[Meisseli]

Basi needs some fixing IMO.
Healing aura, silent footsteps, increased grab, jumping like a mara, gas works on all armour...
There's a reason why Basilisk costs 1 evo and Tyrant 5. There's no reason for Basi being able to disable the whole human team with a cunning gas, or being the best alien there is - due to regeneration.
Basi was a very great weapon with a skilled player before, no need to pump it's steroids way up. I vote for silent footsteps and maybe increased regeneration for itself. That's all.

About Cady's suggestions, I really like the MD damage bumping. And also dretch being able to damage buildables.

[David]

In the past the DC made turrets smarter and better.  Does it still do that?

[Sayeru]

I have solution to fix the beginning of matches - the rifle against dretch.

-Decrease amount of credits for killing dretch from 175(150?) to 75 - Humans won't reach stage 2 fastly and the dretches will have more chances.
-Increase dretch hp +3. (It makes that dretch will die in 6-7 bullets)
-Dretch should kill turrets like in 1.1.
-I agree about damage, but the bite rate is far to slow! It should be changed back.

@Meisseli
Totally agree. Silent footstep would be good, but others things absolutely not.

The massdriver could have 1 clip like the lasgun, but should overheat if you shoot it too frequently.

I'm not really sure about that, it seems imbalanced. BUT a little damage bonus is welcome. 41 is fine.

Pounce damage is unchanged. What has changed is that light armour no longer gives as much protection against nonlocational damage as light armour + helmet. And headchomps still do significantly more damage than the pounce.

Wut? Since when human with armour and helmet was better than a regular dragoon or ADVANCED dragoon? :/  

[kevlarman]

• Dretches being able to damage buildings. I don't see how it would make things horribly unbalanced. With a properly built base the dretches will die quickly enough nonetheless. The argument that dretches could take a base down completely doesn't hold. If you build a base like that you deserve to lose. A slightly valid argument however would be that the dretches could mindlessly rush the human base forcing tedious repairing. However, if the dretches do rush like that, chances are you will kill them and gain stage 2 with the DC.

i don't think you were around to see khalsa and catalyc abuse this... trust me, it's horribly unbalanced.

[KillerWhale]

The issue with dretches damaging all buildings is pretty obvious when you play with it.

It's far too easy to prematurely end a game with a fast, small, and damaging alien.
The camping caused by this would be insane, as the humans don't want a dead base that early in a game.

Some may argue that goons end the game early like this, but the difference is:
The likelihood of 15 goons rushing in a 15vs15 at the thirty second mark is incredibly low.

Although turrets would keep this from happening, the reality is, in many matches, there is no builder.

I do support dretches being able to damage turrets, but with the slow-ret system implemented in the development games right now, they would be incredibly overpowered.

[kevlarman]

Although turrets would keep this from happening, the reality is, in many matches, there is no builder.

the point is that turrets didn't stop it from happening, it was very easy to set off a chain reaction with just 2-3 dretches, even when the base has a few campers.

[janev]

Th...{snip}... in a 15vs15 a ... {snip}

I hope we are not balancing with 15 v 15 games in mind:o My €0.02.

[borsuk]

Basi needs some fixing IMO.
Healing aura, silent footsteps, increased grab, jumping like a mara, gas works on all armour...
There's a reason why Basilisk costs 1 evo and Tyrant 5. There's no reason for Basi being able to disable the whole human team with a cunning gas, or being the best alien there is - due to regeneration.

I think new jumping is actually a downgrade.
Note that a skilled human with a rifle can easily kill several dretches, it's not uncommon for several dretches to die to a single marine. Rifle marines routinely kill tyrants and dragons - perhaps not on themselves, but certainly with backup or in groups of 2-3. 1.1 basilisk becomes nearly worthless with introduction of helmet, and even worse at s3 when it can't even hold a battlesuit. To top it off, players with high mouse sensitivity seem to be able to shoot basilisks grabbing them from behind. Even at S1 basilisks are easily countered with some rudimentary teamplay, and are discouraged from teamplaying themselves (tyrants and dragoons love teamkilling you and stealing your lunch). Wake me up when basilisk is as useful as a rifle for marines, or can compete with dretches which cost infinitely less evo points.

Basi was a very great weapon with a skilled player before

Lies.
Basilisk is better than useless in hands of an excellent player. There's nothing a 1.1 basilisk can do other aliens can't do better. It deals less damage than a dretch, is slower and easier to hit, is worst alien to attack a base with, has hard counters in the form of helmet and battlesuit.

[your face]

Play Tremulous more before coming up with those conclusions.

[Meisseli]

I think new jumping is actually a downgrade.
Note that a skilled human with a rifle can easily kill several dretches, it's not uncommon for several dretches to die to a single marine. Rifle marines routinely kill tyrants and dragons - perhaps not on themselves, but certainly with backup or in groups of 2-3. 1.1 basilisk becomes nearly worthless with introduction of helmet, and even worse at s3 when it can't even hold a battlesuit. To top it off, players with high mouse sensitivity seem to be able to shoot basilisks grabbing them from behind. Even at S1 basilisks are easily countered with some rudimentary teamplay, and are discouraged from teamplaying themselves (tyrants and dragoons love teamkilling you and stealing your lunch). Wake me up when basilisk is as useful as a rifle for marines, or can compete with dretches which cost infinitely less evo points.

Uh? How does that helmet make basi worthless? It's still the same - get behind him and swipe swipe. Players with high mouse sensitivity are not able to shoot basis if the basi knows what to do, trust me. Wakey wakey borsuk, have you ever tried to kill a skilled stage two human with a dretch, and then compared it to killing him with a basi?

About battlesuits, why would you even try them with basi? Not all players use battlesuit, you can actually pick your enemies instead of blindly running to them all.

Lies.
Basilisk is better than useless in hands of an excellent player. There's nothing a 1.1 basilisk can do other aliens can't do better. It deals less damage than a dretch, is slower and easier to hit, is worst alien to attack a base with, has hard counters in the form of helmet and battlesuit.

You're now missing the important part of being a basi. Grabbing. One mistake from the human and he is grabbed and can't do a thing about it. I find that you have never seen a skilled basi, but have seen many skilled human players. What importance is that less damage if you're dying in one second compared to the basi behind you not receiving a hit? And by the way, dretch is the worst alien to attack a base with. Basis can RC jump and slow turrets by grabbing them.

[A Spork]

Lies.
Basilisk is better than useless in hands of an excellent player. There's nothing a 1.1 basilisk can do other aliens can't do better. It deals less damage than a dretch, is slower and easier to hit, is worst alien to attack a base with, has hard counters in the form of helmet and battlesuit.

You Obviously haven't played against a good Basilisk player.
Face someone like Dracone, with him as a Basilisk, you and you'll see how lethal they can be

[borsuk]

Uh? How does that helmet make basi worthless? It's still the same - get behind him and swipe swipe. Players with high mouse sensitivity are not able to shoot basis if the basi knows what to do, trust me. Wakey wakey borsuk, have you ever tried to kill a skilled stage two human with a dretch, and then compared it to killing him with a basi?

Helmet makes basilisks worthless because they're much weaker in frontal attacks than any other alien, and with helmets they will only face humans in fair combat. High mouse sensitivity apparently helps turn around faster, because some players are able to shoot me while I'm holding them from behind with basilisk. The fact that you have so much trouble understanding what my post makes me not want read your arguments, or what you believe are valid arguments rather than simple statements and anecdotal evidence. And no, I don't trust someone living inside my computer.

You're now missing the important part of being a basi. Grabbing. One mistake from the human and he is grabbed and can't do a thing about it. I find that you have never seen a skilled basi, but have seen many skilled human players.

You obviously are pulling statements out of your ass. I've seen very good basilisk players - yah for example. And I still prefer to face very good basilisk players than very good dretch players who are almost unhittable and pop up from nowhere, marauder players who don't miss a single headshot and don't notice turrets, or dragoon players who play their own game and destroy whole bases without support from other aliens. Very good basilisk players still get teamkilled a lot, because basilisk is the most teamkilled class, and still die by dozens when some newbie decides to spam luci.

--------------------------------------
Here's an idea for human bases. (borrowed from Enemy Territory: Quake Wars)
Turrets (and possibly other structures, like armory, telenodes) get 300% HP. The catch ? They only work if their health is higher than 2/3. And they automatically repair to 2/3, much like alien defences.
Result - human structures are easy to disable, hard to destroy completely. Humans can turn around and not have their base completely destroyed by two goons. Dretches are allowed to deal damage to buildings once again. This way, smaller amount of humans would be able to defend base while the rest could be attacking.

[David]

Aliens move faster than humans, so gen generally get behind them.
When grabbed rotation is limited however sensitive your mouse is.  I think you are capped at 90 degrees, but that may be wrong.

And I've never seen anyone deliberate TK on the dev server, and FF is off now anyway, which leads me to conclude you're just talking about 1.1.

[borsuk]

Aliens move faster than humans, so gen generally get behind them.

Even two humans may be enough to make that impossible. If you grab one, the other will kill you.

And I've never seen anyone deliberate TK on the dev server, and FF is off now anyway, which leads me to conclude you're just talking about 1.1.

If I could play development 1.2 version, I would.

[David]

Why can't you play it?

And yeah two humans will own a basi, but that why you pick your targets well

[Meisseli]

Helmet makes basilisks worthless because they're much weaker in frontal attacks than any other alien, and with helmets they will only face humans in fair combat. High mouse sensitivity apparently helps turn around faster, because some players are able to shoot me while I'm holding them from behind with basilisk. The fact that you have so much trouble understanding what my post makes me not want read your arguments, or what you believe are valid arguments rather than simple statements and anecdotal evidence. And no, I don't trust someone living inside my computer.

In that case you have missed the point of being a basilisk totally. Frontal attacks? The point in playing basilisk is not to stay in front of the human, but get behind him. You know what that helmet does - it only delays your death by 2 seconds. About that high mouse sensitivity and you getting killed - it doesn't work like that. Maybe you're on his head, humans can shoot you from there. Go behind his back as I've told you. If you don't care about what I believe are valid arguments, why should I care yours?

You obviously are pulling statements out of your ass. I've seen very good basilisk players - yah for example. And I still prefer to face very good basilisk players than very good dretch players who are almost unhittable and pop up from nowhere, marauder players who don't miss a single headshot and don't notice turrets, or dragoon players who play their own game and destroy whole bases without support from other aliens. Very good basilisk players still get teamkilled a lot, because basilisk is the most teamkilled class, and still die by dozens when some newbie decides to spam luci.

My hobbies do not include pulling anything out of my ass. How about that one skilled basi that you get maybe one partial shotgun hit because of the cool dodging, grabs you from the testicles, moves around to your spine and kills you? Your argument #1 = basilisk is bad because you're teamkilled a lot. Your argument #2 = basilisk is bad because other aliens can be used effectively too. My advice is, #1 go play in a better server. #2, learn basilisk.

That's all,
Meisseli

[mooseberry]

Actually even bad basis such as myself can take on a couple or few of average marines with upgraded weapons.

[Bissig]

--- snip ---

Lies.
Basilisk is better than useless in hands of an excellent player. There's nothing a 1.1 basilisk can do other aliens can't do better. It deals less damage than a dretch, is slower and easier to hit, is worst alien to attack a base with, has hard counters in the form of helmet and battlesuit.

You have never seen ExistentialRisk pwning hordes of enemies with his awesome basi. He could rack up 50 basi kills until S3 and totally demoralize the human team. And keep in mind: I am not talking about a noob human team.

[kevlarman]

You have never seen ExistentialRisk pwning hordes of enemies with his awesome basi. He could rack up 50 basi kills until S3 and totally demoralize the human team. And keep in mind: I am not talking about a noob human team.

incidentally, he was the one who requested that basi jump height be increased to be able to jump on a battlesuit's head.

[Bissig]

Lol, yeah, he did those "swipe humans back, jump on head, swipe -> kill" things. Nasty bugin.

[{7}wrath]

When did he request this? I was under the impression he had completely abandoned Tremulous..

[kevlarman]

when the changes were still being tested on trem.tjw.org.

[borsuk]

You have never seen ExistentialRisk pwning hordes of enemies with his awesome basi. He could rack up 50 basi kills until S3 and totally demoralize the human team. And keep in mind: I am not talking about a noob human team.

incidentally, he was the one who requested that basi jump height be increased to be able to jump on a battlesuit's head.

Do you mean Tremulous is being balanced for corner cases ? Why not just raise basilisk cost to 6 evos to keep obvious noobs like me from using it ? Surely pro players won't have a problem spending 6 evos on each basilisk.

[your face]

Pros who are pro at basi, are even more pro at goon.

[Winnie the Pooh]

So I went on the development server to test out how it is.

I request that mark decon include telenodes as a high priority structure and that they be treated like the reactor, only individually.

In this picture, you see the original niveus base minus the reactor.


In this picture, you see that I have moved the base to the staircase room with sufficiently adequate defenses.


The problem is, the picture at the top was taken after I finished building the staircase base. Showing that nothing was deconstructed from the original base. I don't have a problem with the turrets or the armoury/medistation not being deconned immediately, but the remaining telenodes pose a problem. To get them out of the default base you would have to either:

• Build enough structures to use up all build points and consequently spam your new base with unneeded structures.

OR

• Shoot at the old structures with your blaster or such. This will most definitely attract attention to yourself and any alert alien will realize there is no rc and that you are live fodder. Consequently, you will not be able to shoot fast enough to destroy the old structures. You will be dead before that. On top of that, aliens will notice that you are trying to get rid of the telenodes and consequently camp them. Not a good thing.

So hopefully, you can see my point.

[David]

The other argument is that more nodes = better.  I would guess only do what you suggest for unpowered nodes.

[Winnie the Pooh]

Actually, considering that you should be able to choose which node to spawn from, this isn't THAT bad.

[kevlarman]

you can deconstruct unpowered buildings right now (as opposed to marking them).

[danmal]

Then what's the point of mark in moving a base? You'll still need 2 builders. One to build the RC at the new base and the other to decon the nodes once the RC has been moved.

[The Lolling Man]

• Add some kind of accessory (e.g. battery pack) like a MediKit or First Aid Kit that heals other players, or something like a syringe instead of weapon.
• Also, some kind of barrier needs to be added as a human constructable.
• Integrated helmet-like features in the battlesuite - shit costs 400 credits, needs more stuff other than more protection.
• A flying alien would also be cool
• For basilisk or marauder - spitting acid that acts like poison and distracts view but does more damage and lasts for a lesser amount of time

May sound pointless - just my 2 credits