a new tremulous map

[soubok]

Hello, I am working on a new tremulous map:
http://soubok.googlepages.com/tremulous
Any realistic ideas/suggestions are wellcome.

[DarkRogue]

very nice, very...flesh tone.

[Spooky]

It looks quite ... different. Will you be doing a public beta test? I'd like to find out how trem handles outdoor areas and perhaps provide some feedback.

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

Very nice indeed. Large maps aren't a problem as long as you can use the wallwalkig ability and the jetpack (too many big openings with no ceilings aren't good for gameplay).
Also, the outdoor-damage was a nice idea, be sure to make it worth to go out there (shortcuts, lockable doors for instance).
Btw, doors that can be locked by Humans, and vents that can be used by small Aliens are more than welcome.
Keep up the good work!

[Basilisco]

-stage 3 will be very long to reach ( require a lot of kills )
Nice idea, that would let the jetpack vs adv-marauder part of the game shine in this map. (and open spaces are not really good for tyrants
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-outside part of the map will cause damage to players ( nobody can survive outside more than 5 minutes )
hhm.. might get a bit frustrating, but interesting none the less.
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-small aliens can move more easily in the map ( ventilation duct, ... )
if you mean, looong ventilations duct where humans with long-range gun can kill dretches easily or trapp them in some way, you might want to think about it (havent seen them, so i might be wrong)
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-human can lock some doors ( however there is always an alternative path )
Maybe you could block the door -just from one side- so aliens and human could do that (hence, impeding the pass of the enemy)

OR

could lock from both sides, but for a short period of time.. or something...
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AAAND..

Do the map have a name? You could make a name-this-map contest!


ALSO

In the shot0000.JPG the eggs is outside, does that mean that structures are not damaged by the burning sun? (or whatever is making it imposible to live for more than 5 mins)

[soubok]

Thanks for your replies. The name of the map is 'pulse' and I will try to make beta releases as soon as possible.
About the big openings, the only one will be the outdoor area, and I will try to make damage to players and structures in this area. If it is not possible, I will disallow outdoor constructions ( I have to test this ). I decided to make outdoor because a lot of 'officials' tremulous maps have nice outdoor but they remain unreachable by players and it is very frustrating for me
The comment of Basilisco about doors is very intresting, if the door locking is well done, it will allow to reconfigure the map dynamically ( I think that a delay between two locks is required ! )
btw, I will try to update my page very often.

Soubok.

[soubok]

It seems it is not possible to make a door that can be blocked -just from one side-. However, it is possible to lock the door (two ways) with a button.

[Vector_Matt]

You could make it so only one side has a button, that would achive the effect of it being lockable from one side, sortof.

[soubok]

Yes, I think this is the only solution: a button on one side that enable blocking the two sides. BTW Q3A has a huge leak of entities, for exemple, there is no toggleable doors , and gate entity ( like func_and ), ...

[Catalyc]

Could also try setting an insane wait key for the door, maybe wait 0 means do not return, since -1 is return inmediately, could be wrong though. For the 'gate' entity, what do you mean exactly?

[soubok]

I think about logical gates ( AND, OR, XOR ) ...
for exemple if switch1 AND switch2 are activated, the door will open.
For the moment, the only solution to make toggle doors is an horrible trick with: 1 func_train + 2 corners + 1 func_delay + 1 func_relay + trigger_multiple.

[soubok]

A new screenshot :

( there are more screenshots at http://soubok.googlepages.com/tremulous )

What do you think about :
- the brightness ?
- the corridor design ?

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

I think we all could be thankful to you for making this map and being so creative. Keep it up.
Brightness is ok I think. Open an existing, official map and find the gamma settings on them. That would be the best standard you can get.
Also, the corridor looks well-done. A minor problem could be that wallwalking Aliens could have big problems on the ceiling with those lights, lamps, pipes and stuff. But it looks very good this way, definiately.
Feedback needed from Alien players!    (I never play as an Alien   ).

[SLAVE|Mietz]

looks nice, but the wall-decoration will piss wallwalking aliens off^^

[Basilisco]

HU! HA! that monitor looks sweet! (and its a first for tremulous)

You could try to add traces of sand and footprints near the entrance (you know, for all the sand outside) that would make it look cool! *ahem* more  believable.

And one thing. the floor in the command center shuold look more like a floor. Because now it seems just like the walls and the ceiling. Try to unify it with the corridors and the rest of the map.

[soubok]

I will try to take in account the aliens ceiling/wall walking ( but remember that aliens can walk under the floor ).
I think that it is hard to find a good compromise between simple (sad) rooms that make wallwalking easy and comblex rooms ( with candy-eye ) that is a problem with wallwalking.
For the moment, the floor of the base is made in the same concrete that the walls, I want to keep the 'raw' environment. I will try another texture for the floors.
Traces of sand and footprints near the entrance is a good idea, thanks. ( BTW, I have noticed that the '_decal - info_null' feature do not work properly, the decal flickes )

I have another problem: the image of the camera (portal) is moving ( slow rotation ). Do you know how to avoid this ??

- soub -

[[db@]Megabite]

When you map is ready for a gameplaytest just contact me via PM and I will upload and cycle it on our testserver!

Cheers, Danny

[DarkRogue]

Just be sure the walls are covered with whatever clip brush the trem map authors used in the originals so there's not alot of weird wallwalkexperiences.

BRightness: Could be a smidge darker for an ambient feel, right now from the picture it looks full bright, and while trem aliens don't rely on darkness it helps to set a 'mood'

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Just be sure the walls are covered with whatever clip brush the trem map authors used in the originals so there's not alot of weird wallwalkexperiences.

BRightness: Could be a smidge darker for an ambient feel, right now from the picture it looks full bright, and while trem aliens don't rely on darkness it helps to set a 'mood'

i think the gamma for his client (not the map) is up, because the shadows look ugly^^

so the "original" will be darker

[soubok]

It is true, I forget to reset my gamma settings for the screenshots

[phaedrus]

This map is looking really good.  

I usually play alien, and wall decorations are often a pain, ATCS is one of the best maps for wallwalking, but it has extremely plain walls.  The main advantage of really plain walls is it allows for conrolled, erratic "corkscrewing".  This is even better than usual dodging, because the dretch is just going everywhere.  Decorated walls make this maneuver very hard.  (However, the walls do a look a lot cooler.)

Arachnid has good, alien friendly complicated walls.  You'll notice most of the decorations in Arachnid are vertical.  This allows shooting to the ceiling and hiding on the wall behind a bulkhead.  I particularly like this config, because it lets me get into a nook above the humans' head height, and wait for one to pass (then, drop and follow, grabbing a couple shots before he can even see me).  

The ability to get under the floor boards is cool, however, it looks like you can shoot through it.  Are there places which aren't grating where a dretch can take cover?  That might be worthwhile.  Is it easy to get back out to get the drop on a human?  

Don't deconstruct all your hard work on my advise though.  It looks good, and these considerations don't effect bigger bugs.  

When moving as a Maurader, lips and overhangs are the most annoying things to me.  Stretches of plain vertical wall next to and below platforms are great for Mauraders.  In transit, instead of taking the stairs up to the human base (where the three donut balconies, the bottom one with the busted floor are), I'll wall jump up the flat area right next to it, you can quickly get up to the third platform with just a few attempts.  Then you only have to take the last platform.  

The platform above the alien base in arachnid also has some similar tricks.  You can launch over the door (to the ramp) to get there, or you can head over to the other side of the OM platform and shoot up that wall.  This is kind of delicate, because I often overshoot the whole platform on last jump.

Anyway, my point is that long stretches of relatively flat wall (any direction, so vertical decorations are nice here too) will allow a Maurader to travel very quickly along it.  

Dragoons just have a built in rocket hop, so designing for them is not much different than for normal maps or speed trial maps.  

Tyrants don't like ladders.  Or raised platforms.  The default human bases on niveus and tremor are both very nice for tyrant rushes.  However, don't get stuck downstairs with a tyrant on tremor.  There's no way out.  Not that that is bad.  It keeps the S3 aliens on their toes.

These are just considerations and things to be aware of.  Either design to block this stuff, or design to allow it (usually want to do both, if you want areas that are friendly to one side or the other, and you would usually want both on the same map, for balance).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this map.  Keep up the good work.

Jeff

[soubok]

Your remarks are very intresting, and I will do my best to take them in account. However, my map have an horizontal design ( because the ceilings of my corridors are low ).
To add more vertical elements, I can add some junctions between floors, and I can make rooms with high ceilings ( this can create a good contrast between narrow corridors and high rooms ).

About the floor boards, I will try to make them 'solid', so we can just see through them but not shoot through them.

I built my corridor sections as 'prefab' elements, so it is not too hard to modify them ( copy/past is my friend ).

I will release a beta version before adding too many custom decoration to my corridors.

- soub -

[soubok]

Hello, I am working hard on my map, and I am pleased to show you a lot of new screenshots here ( r_gamma is 1.875000 )

don't hesitate to comment them !

[Basilisco]

Its looking gooood, and HUUUGE

looks like the door are still going to open so, can goons still snipe you? (that would be nice


We need to beta test this map!!! wiiiiiii

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

Looks gorgeous   . Dretches will own this map, because of the large number of obstacles and ramps you made, but if the corridors and rooms are big enough, that won't be a big problem   .
Also, on you homepage, there was a question: 'how to make toggleable lights?'. It would be a good idea and a major 'gloomy' () concept if you could add to some corridors or to one or two rooms a little dynamic light. So, it wouldn't be a toggleable lightsource, but a flickering, red or a little dark glow (like defective lamps on the ceiling). You can also make a strategically important corridor to have a dynamic-light-trigger: let's say, the lights would go off in every minute for 10-15 seconds. So it would be dangerous to run or walk through that corridor/room to reach the opposing team   .
Keep up the good work, and make us a beta version to test with .

[soubok]

The map seems to be huge but I think that it is not the case. I will try to get times to travel form Human to Alien base on officials maps.

About the door, you can get killed if you stay between while the security system is activated, you have 1second delay to move when you heard the button is activated.

About the lighting, I will use some dynamic (blinking) in some corridors to distinguish them.
A dynamic (switch based ) lighting is very hard to make with Q3A engine. The only solution I know is based on shader replacing ( eg. two shaders for a wall; the lit one wth a lightmap stage, and the dark one without the light stage. This means duplicate all shaders hit by the switchable light ). However, it can be a very cool gameplay element.

I am really near to release a beta-alpha version of my map, I need to make two more rooms : the stock, the bedrooms.

Thanks for the feedback.

[DarkWolf]

I like the door idea   , will be fun when you close the door right infront of someone you don't like whilst 4 tyrants, 3 dragoons and 8 dretches are coming down the corridor   .
Nonetheless i won't be doing that i think, might be yelled at for feeding the aliens   .

[soubok]

hmmm I will use a longer delay to close the door after the button is pressed, or make the door close slowly.

[Basilisco]

Having the door closing instantly but slowly is the best way. So you can leave dragoons behind, but at the same time not being completely safe from smaller aliens.

Another thing, how do the outside enviroment affect jetpackers? will it make them fall a bit? or just lose health progressively?

[soubok]

Ok for the door, it's a good idea.
About the outside enviroment, jetpackers will not be able to use their jetpack because they will be damaged every second ( -2 health ). Perhaps I will make some 'safe' areas in the shadow of the big sun.
BTW what is the max regeneration rate for aliens ?