New Tremulous map (unofficial)

[Vector_Matt]

I'm working on a (huge/awsome/revalutionary take your pick) map and I want some ideas from the comunity as to what things you'de like to see in a map. So far I've got: low grav room, teleportation, moving trains, and  trapdoors. Any additional ideas?

Note: I put unofficial in the title because it's not an official Trem map (yet :wink: ).

[MadMan2k]

none of the above. since tremulous has a quite elaborated gameplay it is more important that the map has a good layout instead of some special features...

[Vector_Matt]

It's going to have good layout AND special features. The original maps are good, but a little too bland for my taste.

[raph]

Traproom with deadly lasers like in Resident Evil 1 the movie? :lol:

[Vector_Matt]

Well, I don't think I can make laser entities, but I could simulate it with brushes that do damage .

[DarkWolf]

Buttons, lots of buttons, like automated defences for humans (non-buildable), or to open doors/(enclosed) elevators/turrets?
That would be the most awsomest thing ever in tremulous         .

[Vector_Matt]

Buttons, noted and planed. Thanks.

[DarkWolf]

Wow, fast reply   .
Anyhow, i just thought up of something: Fixed spots to build exclusive this-map-only buildings, like defences, and/or buildings that provide bonuses to either teams (depending on which team build it), add's a new layer of strategy to the game    :wink: .

[Vector_Matt]

Sounds great, but I'm not sure how I would go about doing that. Know of any links to something like that, or a tutorial for that?

[raph]

What I would like to have are some "strategic points" who change team if touched  or buildings are near it.
So e.g. the team controlling a point would be able to e.g. open/close a door / use elevator / turn of the lights etc.

[Vector_Matt]

Thanks. I will look into doing that.

[DarkWolf]

Something like that yea, but also that a constructor would have to build the building, adding some essention to the building itslef, but if that's too hard to realize, just touching a building to get ownership of it would just do fine  :wink:   .
PS: How long would it take to get such a map completed?

[Vector_Matt]

Probably a few weeks at most, depending on my schedule. But it shouldn't be toooooo long.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Something like that yea, but also that a constructor would have to build the building, adding some essention to the building itslef, but if that's too hard to realize, just touching a building to get ownership of it would just do fine  :wink:   .
PS: How long would it take to get such a map completed?

just let it react to a repeater, like the doors on the original trem map.

[raph]

just let it react to a repeater, like the doors on the original trem map.

Repeaters are destroyed automatically if their power isn't used

[SLAVE|Mietz]

just let it react to a repeater, like the doors on the original trem map.

Repeaters are destroyed automatically if their power isn't used

so? just another motivation to hold the position and/or have a builder nearby

[Vector_Matt]

just let it react to a repeater, like the doors on the original trem map.

Which map has that?

[Catalyc]

Make a mission map that forces humans to do something diferent than turret hugging.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

just let it react to a repeater, like the doors on the original trem map.

Which map has that?

uncreation?

[Silverius]

Thought the uncreation doors were triggered by stage.

[Vector_Matt]

Thought the uncreation doors were triggered by stage.

Ditto.

[Catalyc]

Yes, the doors in uncreation are triggered by stage, however, you can make a trigger_buildable that is triggered by a repeater and is linked to the door.

[Vector_Matt]

Or I could make it trigger a button so that when you have a building there you can push the button to open the door?

EDIT: Nope. that didn't work for me. (however if you've gotten it to work send me the .map file please) I guesse I'll just use the original idea of open when you build there (which can have advantages as well).

[DarkRogue]

I'm working on a (huge/awsome/revalutionary take your pick) map and I want some ideas from the comunity as to what things you'de like to see in a map. So far I've got: low grav room, teleportation, moving trains, and  trapdoors. Any additional ideas?

Note: I put unofficial in the title because it's not an official Trem map (yet :wink: ).

Low grav room = instant death for dretches

if including would suggest that the area be non buildible or too small for a base

On part of my own suggestions:

More use of the Z-axis - more places where building high and using jetpacks to reach such spots are valuible.

One way passages - for example you build a base with three entrances however only one allows bigger humans/aliens in or out (like that vent room)

Fog - low to the ground that dretches can use to spring from or hugging the ceiling...

[Vector_Matt]

Low grav room = instant death for dretches

if including would suggest that the area be non buildible or too small for a base

On part of my own suggestions:

More use of the Z-axis - more places where building high and using jetpacks to reach such spots are valuible.

One way passages - for example you build a base with three entrances however only one allows bigger humans/aliens in or out (like that vent room)

Fog - low to the ground that dretches can use to spring from or hugging the ceiling...

Great ideas, I will get to work on those. I especialy like the low fog, and the z-axis ones.

[Stof]

More use of the Z-axis - more places where building high and using jetpacks to reach such spots are valuible.

Yeah, nothing like giving the humans more places to put buildings where only Dretches and Basilisks can reach !

[Vector_Matt]

ADV-Grangers? And he never said that would be the only way to get there. Ever heard of pounce?

[R1CH]

Teleporters are horrible, good map design shouldn't require them. It sounds from your original post that this will just be a gimmick map though.

[Stof]

ADV-Grangers? And he never said that would be the only way to get there. Ever heard of pounce?

Oh yeah, forgot about those weaklings :p

Anyway, if it can bea reached by Pounce for a Dragoon, then it isn't a problem. Note that regular Dragoons don't jump as high as Adv Dragoons. Don't require stage 3 tecch for aliens to kill humans.

Btw, this works both ways. There are some places where I'm sure aliens can stick a few acid tubes on the walls and humans can't possibily pass anymore. I'm thinking about a certain red room behind a ventilation shaft where battlesuits can't reach.

[Vector_Matt]

Teleporters are horrible, good map design shouldn't require them. It sounds from your original post that this will just be a gimmick map though.

Please define what you mean by "a gimmick map".

[[db@]Megabite]

Simply put a map living on gimmicks...

What is really hard is to get those gimmicks working well gameplay-wise. Most players define this just by good layout and balancing, those gimmicks are usually just sounds and shaders to round up the feeling of the map.

Things like low gravity or teleporters or moving stuff are usually funny for a game or two but are getting people off on a long term. A map is finally liked by gameplay first, visuals second, sounds third and gimmicks fourth.

Putting one of all those things in and balancing it well may work. All those things sound like a map just as a feature demonstration, a gimmick map with hardly balanced and finally fun gameplay...

Just my feelings on the topic... to finally judge we will have to play the map, so keep up the work and show us different!

Cheers, Danny

[Survivor]

It would however lay the groundwork of showing mappers what can be done in trem mapwise.

[[db@]Megabite]

Have a look at any Quake 3 mapping tutorial...

Cheers, Danny

[Survivor]

Or I could make it trigger a button so that when you have a building there you can push the button to open the door?

EDIT: Nope. that didn't work for me. (however if you've gotten it to work send me the .map file please) I guesse I'll just use the original idea of open when you build there (which can have advantages as well).

http://rapidshare.de/files/19721081/repeaterreact.map.html

/sv_pure 0
/devmap repeaterreact
/g_humanstage 2

This would be using a subsystem which opens up the button for use. You get the idea when you see it.

[Vector_Matt]

Megabite"]Simply put a map living on gimmicks...

What is really hard is to get those gimmicks working well gameplay-wise. Most players define this just by good layout and balancing, those gimmicks are usually just sounds and shaders to round up the feeling of the map.

Things like low gravity or teleporters or moving stuff are usually funny for a game or two but are getting people off on a long term. A map is finally liked by gameplay first, visuals second, sounds third and gimmicks fourth.

Putting one of all those things in and balancing it well may work. All those things sound like a map just as a feature demonstration, a gimmick map with hardly balanced and finally fun gameplay...

Just my feelings on the topic... to finally judge we will have to play the map, so keep up the work and show us different!

Cheers, Danny

Yes these things would usualy be "gimmicks" but I plan on changing that. Right now I'm working on a large mobile train that you can fight on, and (if tremulous ever supports it) build bases on.

[Draconishinobi]

I have an idea. Make a map where at the beginning a coin is flipped and it either lands on aliens or humans ... whomever it lands on must run a gauntlet powered by their opposition. Make a whole map full of torture devices, pitfalls, trapdoors, sharp swinging objects, and other diabolical things all controlled by the opposition. If the gauntleteers make it through the gauntlet they get boosted to lvl 3 with max evo pts instantly and get a chance to slaughter the opposition, who will also earn points by using traps to mame or kill their opponents. There should be a button at the end of the gauntlet that the gauntleteers should press to stop the gauntlet. The gauntleteers spawn at the beginning of the gauntlet and can build all they want in a relatively secure base.

[Vector_Matt]

Wow, a whole new style of gameplay. I hope it can be done without changing the game code. I'll see what I can do.

[Supa]

I *dare* you to recreate ns_missilecommand. Or any of the other Natural Selection funmaps: ns_siege, ns_ninjafall etc

While they would give more ammunition to the NS hate squad that 'OMG trem is NS ripoff!!' I think a well executed gimmick map could be fun every once in a while. =)

[[db@]Megabite]

Right now I'm working on a large mobile train that you can fight on, and (if tremulous ever supports it) build bases on.

There was a DM map for SiN that worked like that, as far as I remember... That effect should be relatively easy to simulate: Build a "standing" train surrounded by a fixed tunnel. You can texture the tunnel walls with a moving shader so that it looks as if the train is moving...
Put some kill areas all around the train in case someone falls off and you are done.
It is all about feeling. It is okay when it looks and works like what you want it to, it does not need to actually work the technically / physically correct way...

Cheers, Danny

[DarkWolf]

I don't think ALL these ideas will fit in one map, especialy that Flip Coin Death Match Trap thingy, maybe he'll make 2 maps and include all the ideas that woulden't fit in the 1 map, he makes in the other map   .

BTW: i love the mobile train idea, so that it would drive all around the map with a human as driver of the train (or else the train won't work).
Make it so that the train has to pass a dark tunnel, nice ambush place for aliens   .

Also, i thought up on 2 extra idea's:

Mountable turrets - this will be on one of the fixed spot's in the map (If they'll be included), so humans (or aliens, but that would include another defence building/device for the aliens) can protect the base relying on their own skills, not necciserly on AI turrets.

driving and/or flying vehicle's, that would circle the map and land/stop every once in a while to give players the opportunity to enter it and get a quick transportation through the map (seemingly with all these ideas, it would be a pretty big map), and maybe with mountable denfeces/turrets in a few of these vehicle's, maybe atleast on the train (with fixed strategic spots so both humans and aliens can have a profit of it in terms of defences)

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

In Serious Sam 2 there was a single-player map, where the ground wasn't flat but a cylinder-like 'pipe'. You could move on the surface of this cylinder only, the gravitation center was inside the pipe, as a looong line. So if you made a jump, you fell back on the cylinder, but when strafing around, it made you feel as you were standind in one place but the enemies and buildings on the cylinder started rolling up and down from left to right or vica versa (imagine as the sun rises then 'rests'). I don't know if it can be done with the Quake engine, however, I think it would add an interesting gameplay.
Buildings can be placed on the cylinder, but also - if you can make a huge pipe around the 'grund-cylinder' (which makes the map 'closed') - there can be built too, Aliens could use their wall-walking ability (because of gravitation Humans could only walk on the main cylinder), build eggs on the 'ceiling' and it would make jetpacks useful.
And if you add walls and doors to cut off pieces from the room between the cylinder and the ensphering 'pipe' (ceiling), you make a no-gravitation like feeling as if it was in space station or something.
I know these all sound crazy, so feedback required

Forward positions are indeed a good idea, so teams won't just camp. It would make the game a little bit like 'Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War' where players have to dominate, control and defend (King of the Hill like) key locations. So, they ought to attack and expand to control as many of these forward bases/fixed turrets/buildings/locations as they can to gain its benefits.

[raph]

N.M.I."]In Serious Sam 2 there was a single-player map, where the ground wasn't flat but a cylinder-like 'pipe'. You could move on the surface of this cylinder only, the gravitation center was inside the pipe, as a looong line. So if you made a jump, you fell back on the cylinder, but when strafing around, it made you feel as you were standind in one place but the enemies and buildings on the cylinder started rolling up and down from left to right or vica versa (imagine as the sun rises then 'rests'). I don't know if it can be done with the Quake engine, however, I think it would add an interesting gameplay.
Buildings can be placed on the cylinder, but also - if you can make a huge pipe around the 'grund-cylinder' (which makes the map 'closed') - there can be built too, Aliens could use their wall-walking ability (because of gravitation Humans could only walk on the main cylinder), build eggs on the 'ceiling' and it would make jetpacks useful.
And if you add walls and doors to cut off pieces from the room between the cylinder and the ensphering 'pipe' (ceiling), you make a no-gravitation like feeling as if it was in space station or something.
I know these all sound crazy, so feedback required

I realy loved that map in coop multiplayer
But I'm pretty sure that it can't be made with the q3 engine as it is currently (the physic code would have to be rewritten).

[whitebear]

Hey... could you make it so that both bases are placed so that Tyrant cant get to human base and battle suit cant reach alien base... Then game wont be boring after both team has third stage... This could be done with placing alien base higher so can be reached only with jetpack and human base higher that only dragoon and wall walking creatures can be used on geting there... that way there is low ground battle ground to be used fight and the heavy stuff can be used there or at base for defence.

[Vector_Matt]

I don't think ALL these ideas will fit in one map, especialy that Flip Coin Death Match Trap thingy, maybe he'll make 2 maps and include all the ideas that woulden't fit in the 1 map, he makes in the other map  

Yes, I'll probably have to make several map to incorperate all these good ideas. I don't think the train requiring a driver would work but I can try. As for mountable turrets, I'm prety sure that would require a rewrite of the engin but if it can be done I'll find somewhere to use it.

I already have some ideas that would make the guantlet map doable (to an extent), I've almost got the moving train working, the lasers are working, the lowgrav is working, and (thanks to Survivor) the "forward bases allow you to acces hidden rooms" is working. I have no idea what the NS maps in question (or any NS maps) look like, but I can download them and see.

[[db@]Megabite]

Any screenshots, yet?

Cheers, Danny

[Vector_Matt]

Actualy I don't have anywhere to host the screenshots, so none yet, I'll take some and see about getting them  up somewhere.

[SLAVE|Mietz]

Actualy I don't have anywhere to host the screenshots, so none yet, I'll take some and see about getting them  up somewhere.

imageshack

[werepants]

Hey... could you make it so that both bases are placed so that Tyrant cant get to human base and battle suit cant reach alien base... Then game wont be boring after both team has third stage... This could be done with placing alien base higher so can be reached only with jetpack and human base higher that only dragoon and wall walking creatures can be used on geting there... that way there is low ground battle ground to be used fight and the heavy stuff can be used there or at base for defence.

That's a good idea.  I'm sure some people would hate the map and some would love it, but it would be an interesting dynamic for sure.  Sometimes I do just want a map that has awesome bases set up so the focus can just be on fighting.  It might be fun to have a map that had more outdoors space, like a jungle or the mountains.  On the map with the snow it is really fun to play as a dretch or basalisk and cruise around on the mountain/walls, because it is easier to control than being inside.  Outdoor combat in large spaces can be really fun, as long as there are sufficient obstacles to allow the aliens to get close to the humans.

[werepants]

other random idea: does anybody remember the half-life map that would send a nuke to hit anybody outside of the bunker?  of course, the nuke would have to only hit in one area of the map; but it would be pretty awesome.  additionally, make it so that it has a certain timelimit but then has to be triggered by a player.  it would need warning so people would get back to their bases or whatever, but I know in half life it made some fun mad dashes to the bunker when the siren went off, and it also made for some awesome sniping opportunities when you could expect everybody to run like girls right past you   .
my $.02

[Neo]

I remember a Duke3d one where they had 2 halves and each half was wired with a button that the other team could get to(though with difficulty) that would effectively clean out the top floor of the enemy half with grenades.

The only map i'd really like is one where you can just be a complete PITA with a dretch

[Vector_Matt]

What's PITA?

And the nuke and duke3d things are doable (I'll have to fudge a few things but...)

For starters I'll do a map with the nuke idea and the duke3d base thing.

[Neo]

PITA = pain in the ass

[Catalyc]

A teleporter and a bunch of weird crap doesn't make a good map. I have a map thats almost done (meep) to prove that...

[[HUN]N.M.I.]

Teleporters?... Bah, no! But you should make elevators - not closed ones with walls, but a tall, narrow 'room', where single blocks (the ground) are moving up and down. So there is place to build (eggs for example) but also enough room to transport a full human squad (or tyrant) - but with more 'groundblocks', the enemy won't know when they'll arrive, because there would be 10 or more 'elevator rooms' directly above or below. How 'bout that? .

[Survivor]

A teleporter and a bunch of weird crap doesn't make a good map. I have a map thats almost done (meep) to prove that...

Hey, it made a fun map, when's release? Or are you having some more betas?

[Neo]

Teleporters would be fun, especially if you could get the 'target view' thing that they have with Q3 teleports, or not, where you'd have the suprise of just being about to step through and having a flying dretch smack into your face

Elevators would be cool, with enough clearance and spaces to have fun with dretches

[Catalyc]

A teleporter and a bunch of weird crap doesn't make a good map. I have a map thats almost done (meep) to prove that...

Hey, it made a fun map, when's release? Or are you having some more betas?

It'll probably have another test version or two more ... Keep finding silly things like building spots that break the teleporter or the lift.

[Vector_Matt]

Screenshots

As you know it's not supposed to render the "cushion" texture.
Picture 1

This light has _sun = 1 so it should be infinite.
Picture 2

Untill I can find the problem I'm going to stick to indoor maps.

[Issy Gee]

Here's an idea: A control room. The control room can control damage walls, doors, and so on. This will make it a contested area. To level out gameplay, a higher stage number for a team reduces the number of features they have access to from the control room. This makes it harder for a team to rely completely on the control room.

Rather than a teleport, I suggest transit platforms. These platforms will travel throughout the map. Damage walls (as in those blue electric fences in ATCS) can be activated at the transit control room, to force occupants off the platform. There is, however, a considerable distance to travel from any of the platform arrival stations to the control room, making it difficult for a team to control both systems.

And here's another one: A wind tunnel. Two fans at both ends. A switch off in a distant room. The switch controls whether or not a fan is on. Team-mates must coordinate, since the wind tunnel lies in the path to the enemy base. Failure to coordinate will result in the occupants of the wind tunnel being sucked in and chopped up by the active fan.

[Vector_Matt]

Nice ideas, however I'm prety sure that pieces can't move and do damage (Squashing and pendulums aside). However the transit platforms and walls that can block parts are doable.

[Catalyc]

Are you loading all the shaders correctly? Trem doesn't include a common.shader, so caulk should also show up as a solid pink texture

[Argetlam]

These are great ideas and i do no a guy who was pretty good at making maps for control monger, If you would like to talk to him pm me and i will hook you up with his info.

[Vector_Matt]

Are you loading all the shaders correctly? Trem doesn't include a common.shader, so caulk should also show up as a solid pink texture

What would be the propper way to load the shaders so that it works? I've got the textures that came with GTK, Q3TADemo, and Q3ADemo, in the TremDir\Base directory in a .pk3 file, but I guess that I'm missing something.

[Catalyc]

Here is a zip with all the other stuff you need appart from radiant. Extract to your ./tremulous/base folder. It contains:

• entities.def
• common-spog.pk3
• common.shader
• shaderlist.txt (dunno if its complete, but most of the textures/shaders are there)

From this thread. I wouldn't recommend using Q3A/Q3TA textures (or textures from other games that aren't released under proper licenses).

[Survivor]

Don't know if it changed but the last time I downloaded the entity.def file the hive was missing from the team menu.

[Vector_Matt]

I wouldn't recommend using Q3A/Q3TA textures (or textures from other games that aren't released under proper licenses).

I only got them because I though that they might have the missing shaders etc... But thanks for the tip.

And thanks for the link I had everything but the common.shader stuff.

EDIT: well i packed the shader stuff into a .pk3 and this is the what the map looked like, Picture1

On a more interesting subject, shots of the bunkers:

First floor

Second floor

[Vector_Matt]

Bump. See edited post. ^

[AzaToth]

I wouldn't recommend using Q3A/Q3TA textures (or textures from other games that aren't released under proper licenses).

I only got them because I though that they might have the missing shaders etc... But thanks for the tip.

And thanks for the link I had everything but the common.shader stuff.

EDIT: well i packed the shader stuff into a .pk3 and this is the what the map looked like, Picture1

On a more interesting subject, shots of the bunkers:

First floor

Second floor

Thast's low quality :/

[Vector_Matt]

Just how is it "low quality"? If you know ow it can be improved then let me know. And it's a military bunker, bunkers aren't supposed to be fancy.

[AzaToth]

Just how is it "low quality"? If you know ow it can be improved then let me know. And it's a military bunker, bunkers aren't supposed to be fancy.

I ment that the textures looks so "blocky", and the colors is strange.

[[db@]Megabite]

A bunker consisting of no more than 20 brushes with a single texture and no discernable light source is not exactly high detail..
though performance should be good!

Okay, to build a nice bunker you may take a look at games like Castle Wolfenstein, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty... even Doom3 and Quake2-4 should give some nice impressions. Basic layout first, then detail... ramps only where they make sense.. metal stairs are fine, maybe some inventory like computers, tables, crates, anything... and something emitting light, maybe some neon lights?
Texturing all in a concrete & metal theme and you are done!

Cheers, Danny

[Vector_Matt]

Thanks for the info, when I get the shaders, scripting, etc... done I'll work on detailing the place.

[RedGuff]

Hello. I suggest to create mobile parts, in order to install machineguns and acid tubes !
PS : If you want more inspiration, you can try Nexuiz (Free, GNU), or UT99 (free demo avaliable, commercial).
Thanks