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Author Topic: My Thoughts on the new Aimbot  (Read 21091 times)
ShadowNinjaDudeMan


Turrets: +86/-58
Posts: 1388

NOM!NOM!NOM!


WWW
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2007, 07:08:32 PM »

Maybe upon opening this script in their k0der haX creator, they detonatre their hard drive, CPU and RAM.

Thatll teach em.
Logged

My favorite player is Jesus, because everything is forgiven when he respawns.

NOM!NOM!NOM!
ThePyro


Turrets: +1/-0
Posts: 18


« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2007, 07:47:48 PM »

If you know anything about computer security then you know that aimbots are an unsolvable problem.  There's no way to verify what software is running on the client's machine.  A malicious program can always spoof network packets sent by the real program.  You can buy time by obfuscating network traffic, but in the case of an open source game like Tremulous even that method won't stand up for long.  And, as already noted elsewhere, a clever hacker can use injection (at least on Windows) to get around that issue entirely.

Punkbuster is not a magic bullet.  It's essentially just obfuscated network traffic - if the client doesn't send the right packets then they get booted.  Punkbuster can be hacked and defeated just like any other anti-cheating measure, but it has one thing going for it that makes hacking more difficult: full-time staff pumping out constant updates.  Tremulous can't ever provide that.

Theoretically, the closest you can get to a cheat-proof system would be client-side certificates.  They wouldn't automatically detect cheats, but they could ensure that bans are permanent.  Unfortunately, though, client-side certificates would require a setting up a certificate authority and performing background checks, which is way overboard for a video game. Smiley
Logged
imperiumZero


Turrets: +0/-4
Posts: 118


« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2007, 08:45:05 PM »

Quote from: "ThePyro"
If you know anything about computer security then you know that aimbots are an unsolvable problem.  There's no way to verify what software is running on the client's machine.  A malicious program can always spoof network packets sent by the real program.  You can buy time by obfuscating network traffic, but in the case of an open source game like Tremulous even that method won't stand up for long.  And, as already noted elsewhere, a clever hacker can use injection (at least on Windows) to get around that issue entirely.

Punkbuster is not a magic bullet.  It's essentially just obfuscated network traffic - if the client doesn't send the right packets then they get booted.  Punkbuster can be hacked and defeated just like any other anti-cheating measure, but it has one thing going for it that makes hacking more difficult: full-time staff pumping out constant updates.  Tremulous can't ever provide that.

Theoretically, the closest you can get to a cheat-proof system would be client-side certificates.  They wouldn't automatically detect cheats, but they could ensure that bans are permanent.  Unfortunately, though, client-side certificates would require a setting up a certificate authority and performing background checks, which is way overboard for a video game. Smiley


This is my view exactly. Deal with 'em as they come. If you can't administer your own server, don't have one.
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lt;kevlarman> because microsoft's drivers are absolutely horrible that couldn't accelerate glxgears if they tried
Exterminans


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 14


« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2007, 12:42:46 AM »

Maybe i have another idea to the problem with the aimbot.
It seems the aimbot does evrytime a perfect shot into the center of the model, so it should be possible to determe an aimbot by the precision, more than 3 perfect shots and you would know that someone is using an aimbot.
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kevlarman

*

Turrets: +291/-295
Posts: 2737



« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2007, 12:48:56 AM »

Quote from: "Exterminans"
Maybe i have another idea to the problem with the aimbot.
It seems the aimbot does evrytime a perfect shot into the center of the model, so it should be possible to determe an aimbot by the precision, more than 3 perfect shots and you would know that someone is using an aimbot.
aimbots only hit perfect shots (actually they don't even do that) because it's convenient to do so, as soon as there is reason not to, they will stop.
Logged

Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----
Eeeew Spiders


Turrets: +13/-7
Posts: 213


« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2007, 03:49:14 AM »

I think aimbot users should wear funny hats so we can recognize them!

The following solutions have been proposed that would help, but not provide 100% security (with the lower number giving best results):

1. good admining
2. whitelist
3. collecting statistical data
4. global voluntary ban list

every other solutions are only posted because threads haven't been read. And even these solutions have plenty of counter arguments.
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imperiumZero


Turrets: +0/-4
Posts: 118


« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2007, 04:18:58 AM »

Man you shoudl have heard it awhile ago...


Someone on a server I was on was convinced another guy was aimbotting. he kept saying how you could program a bot to randomly miss...and walk around as well.

Talk about imagination.
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lt;kevlarman> because microsoft's drivers are absolutely horrible that couldn't accelerate glxgears if they tried
n00b pl0x


Turrets: +55/-168
Posts: 2415



« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2007, 05:39:48 AM »

current aimbots let the person walk wherever they please...

wft are you saying
Logged

will sort out my sig, or I will get banned.

HOW DO I SORTED SIG?
imperiumZero


Turrets: +0/-4
Posts: 118


« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2007, 07:00:27 AM »

My point is that this is just getting to the insanity level.

An aimbot that would randomly miss? How about kicking someone for 'triggerbotting' with a dretch? (It has happenned.)

It seems to me, and it is quite clear, that if you go back throughout history, groups, communities, towns, cities, even civilizations always seem to revert to the lowest common denominator.

The aim botters ruin in for everyone yes...I'm not disputing that. But the point is that the hysterical preemptive attacks against the problem will only remove the good players, and not the botters, hence the lowest common denominator will be left. All that will be left is awful players and botters until there is no more 'community' left in this game.

The simple answer is that there is NO way to preemptively fight off hackers even with adding such a thing as punk buster. Administrators just need to police their servers more effectively and vigilantly. If they can't manage their own server, what gives them the right to complain about other servers right?
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lt;kevlarman> because microsoft's drivers are absolutely horrible that couldn't accelerate glxgears if they tried
Vector_Matt


Turrets: +2/-1
Posts: 732


« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2007, 01:40:58 PM »

Quote from: "imperiumZero"
How about kicking someone for 'triggerbotting' with a dretch? (It has happenned.)
Were they actually kicked, or did someone just try to kick them? If they were kicked, please tell me the name of the server so I may avoid it at all costs.
Logged

imperiumZero


Turrets: +0/-4
Posts: 118


« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2007, 01:50:53 PM »

SST I believe.

[AC]Eragon Hijoldr (or however you spell it) called the vote. Fuck it was dumb, the guys couldn't even spell anything entirely.
Logged

lt;kevlarman> because microsoft's drivers are absolutely horrible that couldn't accelerate glxgears if they tried
_Equilibrium_


Turrets: +96/-89
Posts: 1845


« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2007, 03:19:39 PM »

when someone is refering to an aimbot missing, it's probably because they have a toggled aimbot. they turn it on and off to avoid suspicion.
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imperiumZero


Turrets: +0/-4
Posts: 118


« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2007, 12:13:59 AM »

No, this person actually said that the "aimbot" persay was programmed to miss randomly, but was always on.  :roll:
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lt;kevlarman> because microsoft's drivers are absolutely horrible that couldn't accelerate glxgears if they tried
FisherP


Turrets: +31/-32
Posts: 295

No, I'm not a Potatoe


« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2007, 01:00:38 AM »

Something to note about the GPL.

One of the reasons why aimbots for Trem are so easy to make is the availability of the source code. If the dev's find some code which might help with detecting aimbots there's no reason why they don't have to charge for access to the source code. Please read Selling Free Software.

In this way the devs can limit the number of people who have access to the code, whenever a new aimbot is released, they change the source, post the updated binary. The aimbotters potentially need to then buy access to the source to update their bot. I know this will also limit the number of people developing game components, but what do people think. Source access for $1,000 ??
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kevlarman

*

Turrets: +291/-295
Posts: 2737



« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2007, 01:33:21 AM »

the gpl explicitly forbids charging more for the code than you do for the binary.
Logged

Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----
FisherP


Turrets: +31/-32
Posts: 295

No, I'm not a Potatoe


« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2007, 01:52:48 AM »

Quote from: "kevlarman"
the gpl explicitly forbids charging more for the code than you do for the binary.


U're right, DOH, it was an idea, but my grey cells are still working on the issue. Maybe there's some sort of work around or loophole somewhere.
Logged

tehOen
Guest
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2007, 01:54:57 AM »

lol Original Poster(fluxflashor) got someone(titan) to spam the forum with a link to his aimbot.
and then titan joined irc just after him flux joined irc.
titan also spammed irc with that link and flux said some crap
(I dont know anything about the spam blabla)
titan disconnected just after him flux disconnected

Code:

Aug 16 12:07:59 * osiris2014 (n=chatzill@CPE-139-168-213-230.sa.bigpond.net.au) has joined #tremulous
Aug 16 12:08:20 * osiris2014 is now known as Titan
Aug 16 12:08:40 * Fluxflashor (n=fluxflas@bas12-toronto12-1177554341.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #tremulous


...

Aug 16 13:01:02 * Titan1 is now known as AlphAOmegA
Aug 16 13:03:51 * AlphAOmegA has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]")
Aug 16 13:04:34 * Fluxflashor has quit ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")


Fluxflashor must STFU
( not to mention he calls himself hacker and he DoS tremulous servers with chat spam ( so leet isnt it )  then pretend he did it to show security issues with the server )
Logged
Puma


Turrets: +26/-0
Posts: 192


« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2007, 01:57:59 AM »

Quote
when someone is refering to an aimbot missing, it's probably because they have a toggled aimbot. they turn it on and off to avoid suspicion.


They try to set the sens very high, so u will not spot , the aimbot aims or the playa, and they move the mouse where the aimbot aims, so after releasing the aim key, the xhair go in the same way, like nothing happened, but in the demo with timescale 0.5 u can see very easly that the xhair stopped perfectly on the human then continued(or on its vertical line), if the player is noob, then the xhair stops on the human, and moves backwards.

Best example is this, cause he makes lot of mistakes at the start, u dont need to w8 10 min for a missed aimpressing:
http://www.flame-clan.eu/members/Puma/Demos_Movies/BigGamer95.dm_69


Just record the noobz when they are tired thats all, they will make a lot of mistakes. The different thing here is that an admin cheats, other ppl will start cheating too, "admin cheats then i cheat too" biggest problem here.
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ou have no life?
http://www.uncommonforum.com/
Here you can find some help.
Nux


Turrets: +257/-69
Posts: 1763


« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2007, 03:16:07 AM »

In that, you'll also notice him stand still for a little bit occasionally, yet no message is sent. This isn't hard proof that he's aimbotting, but this is a characteristic of aimbotters as they like to stop and change their 'vecs'.

For those who have little idea of what aimbots are like, you can set them to aim ahead of targets, to aim at particular areas of the targets hitboxes and to toggle on/off if need be. If BigGamer95 is using one, he appears to have set it up for headshots and possibly with some prediction (aiming ahead of a dodging target would make the view shake due to predicting the targets complex movements).

It is worrying that an aimbot user could be so subtle such as to go undetected. It is also worrying that people may confuse an aimbot with fast reactions or warped timescale.
Logged

Puma


Turrets: +26/-0
Posts: 192


« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2007, 06:48:20 PM »

Fast reactions doesnt stop the crosshair on the human, w8 chomp, then continue it, fast reactions continues, its hard to confuse this little thingy,
maybe if funlily writes a better bot.

As u can see in my last video, when the bs jumps the crosshair "jumps" with, and stay in the middle of the body, aimkey release, then aimkey get pressed again, and the xhair is again perfectly, or near on the middle, depends on vectors, this kill 100 percent proves everything.

Nux u got confused, that ppl dont ask me, they ask my clan to "ask me to stop".
EDIT: and he changed from head to body vector after my first video, this only proves that he is a kid, and thinks, me and u have no brain.

I will edit this and post some demos again, old demos but fun demos.

corrupt shit, dont give anything for this forum.
Logged

ou have no life?
http://www.uncommonforum.com/
Here you can find some help.
se7ensnakes


Turrets: +3/-6
Posts: 37


« Reply #80 on: May 07, 2014, 03:28:05 PM »

hello I like trem but i cannot compete with so many people using aimbots.  I get shot right away no matter how slick I move.  My question is:  Which is the best aimbot out there and if there is a god mode hack also.  Please post the link
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se7ensnakes


Turrets: +3/-6
Posts: 37


« Reply #81 on: May 07, 2014, 03:31:06 PM »

please dont get rid of the aimbots.  This will remove most of the old players, and will consequently kill the game.  Just make it easy for everyone else to get hacks.  Make it a game where you have to code and use the best hacks
its the only way
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Twizzel


Turrets: +1/-32
Posts: 193


« Reply #82 on: May 07, 2014, 04:01:11 PM »

Are you really saying the best solution is to popularize hacks?
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Nux


Turrets: +257/-69
Posts: 1763


« Reply #83 on: May 07, 2014, 06:46:24 PM »

@se7ensnakes:
I'm obligated to point out the following to you.
  • You necroed: You've posted in a very old thread and this is bad. In future start a new thread unless there's a recent thread with a recent comment in it that you are replying to.
  • You then double-posted: You posted a reply when you were already the last person to post and this is doubly bad. Next time edit or delete your recent post before adding any further information you neglected to add on the first try.

Now that we've got that nastiness out of the way we can now fruitfully discuss your idea to promote the use of game-breaking software to fix a game which you say is broken by the very same game-breaking software you wish to promote, essentially turning a game that some people enjoy some of the time into to a game which nobody would enjoy any of the time. Also you should learn how to use Google, your grammar is poor and you smell bad.

That ought to teach you for making me feel old. It's almost been 7 years since I posted in this thread! Cry
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se7ensnakes


Turrets: +3/-6
Posts: 37


« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2014, 03:26:41 PM »

Anyone else have a practical comment?
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