* October 01, 2014, 08:10:47 AM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Come Chat with us live! Learn how HERE!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Common base locations (and their names)  (Read 100222 times)
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« on: April 23, 2006, 03:47:24 AM »

Purpose: Those who have played Tremulous for a long time have come to intimately know every one of the maps packaged with the first release and have more or less discovered every practical location in them for building bases. With humans especially, being able to simply call out the name of a room to your teammates and get cover while moving there in the very beginning of a game is a huge asset to winning so to help newer players and to sort of standardize on some names (to anyone currently making a tremulous map: include location ents so we don't have to come up with silly names ad hoc!) I've made some screenshot series to show these locations.

Volume 1: Niveus

Humans
The human starting base on Niveus is awful. You will not win an even game using this base. Luckily humans have a number of really good spots to choose from. The first I'll show gets called either the "long room" (my preference) or the "red room". This is the easiest spot for humans to get to and is quite defensible, so if you're not keen on taking a big risk at the beginning of a game build here.


Take this exit from the default base and head down the righthand path.


The first room you come to is the one we're talking about. Here's an example of a beginning of a base:


Either side is good, but I like to put the reactor up against one of the corners near the hallway and jam the armoury and medistation up next to it.

One important thing: stagger these turrets! Never ever build turret fronts that require jumping over. When it matters most (running back to the base with low health, no ammo, and aliens on your ass) you won't have the stamina to make it over.



The next spot is close to the long room but a little further along and thus a slightly bigger risk. I usually call it the "intersection room" but "four-door room" is a little more appropriate.

To get there simply exit the door in the long room and take the door on your right (the other one goes back to default). Here's a starting turret placement:


I usually stuff the reactor and teles in one of the side rooms and the med and armoury in the other (medistation always goes next to the armoury so people can heal while upgrading) but having them all in one could work. You probably don't want to leave them without at least one turret for defense (this is one of the very rare situations when a single turret can do good by itself). This is also a very decent spot for aliens, especially as a forward base when humans have holed up in the long room.


The third spot is what I consider to be the best human base location in the game. Hence I call it the "lamer spot". It is extremely difficulty to set up there without some amount of cover but quite worth it as long as your team doesn't feed exorbitantly while moving.

To get there take the route from the default human base you did in going to the long room, but this time take the lefthand path. Follow it up to the righthand turn and you'll come out here:


Take those stairs up to the first door and you're there:


Put the reactor up in that corner and build at least one telenode next to it (you can actually put on inside those barrel things). Three turrets around the door will suffice without cramping too much. All good human bases are pretty cramped, so you have to be careful how you build them. Here is basically how I put down a base here:



That door is deathtrap for any alien (yes, even tyrants) and that long hallway lets you easily chase down any aliens that dared assault your turrets. As long as you maintain it, this base is very good. Too good really...


Aliens
The alien start base is about as terrible as the human start base though good base design isn't quite as vital for aliens. Besides the intersection room, aliens have two common spots on niveus.

The first one can be used by humans very effectively, but since it's right next to the alien base you shouldn't even try to move here in a serious game. It's a fine spot for aliens in stage 1, and a common backup base for them as well so it bears mentioning. This is most often called the "window room", though you'll still see some old players referring to it as the "side room".

To get there just leave the default alien base through the lower (main) route. And take either of these two paths:


Through the one on the left you'll have to go through the first door you see to enter this little hallway:

The side room is through the door on the left, underneath that little red dot of a light.

Overmind goes in the corner, an egg goes in the barrels and maybe also behind the boxes. A barricade plus a large number of acid tubes can seal the door off, but as you might guess having only one entrance makes this base grenade fodder.


The other alien spot is much better and I think the best choice for aliens on this map. I call it the "box room". To get there take the other route out of the default alien base, up the stairs. Take the "longer" path (the other one leads to a drop down".


Following that path will lead you here:

Go through the top door. Notice that the lower door leads to the human "lamer spot" (and no, it's not even remotely good for aliens).

Here's an example of an alien base in the box room:

Overmind goes in the corner. A trapper up there is stupidly effective.

Barricades are quite useful in this spot


You'll need to be careful of jetpackers at stage 2. Make sure the boxes hides the eggs and overmind as best as possible. These two acid tubes can help a little, but make sure they can't be shot at from below.


This is the lower route:

There's not much you can do about this doorway until stage 2, but with a barricade on the stairs humans can't get up this way until they reach stage 2, so it's not a big problem.

One last thing for aliens. This spot may seem like a clever place to stick the overmind but it isn't. Just say no.



Miscellaneous
We cheekily refer to this room as the "pot room".
Logged
Catalyc

*

Turrets: +2/-0
Posts: 214


« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2006, 11:56:07 PM »

*bump*


Karith

Karith is one of the bigger maps, it requires humans to relocate if they're against any decent alien team. It also has spots that can be good for both Aliens and Humans. I couldn't think of any other apart from those (and default) for Aliens, so I guess I'll start with those.

Humans and Aliens

Elevator Room: Also called "lift room". Quite  known among post-1.1.0 players. Its a decent base spot for both Aliens and Humans. People mainly move there because you can build the important stuff upstairs and Tyrants can't reach it. However, for players from the 1.0.0 days (and earlier) its a known deathtrap for camping humans (just like any other 'good' base). Personally I wouldn't recommend Humans to move there in a serious game, too risky and its also a common alien spot. For aliens, its best to put the OM upstairs where it can't get shot by attackers and always remember to cover the vent with at least some wall tubes (grenades are nasty). Trappers work quite well in this spot.



Dark Staircase: The dark stairs near the default alien base. Humans should only build there when they know for sure that aliens are moving somewhere else. Just place a bunch of turrets on each door (spread them out a bit so you can walk between them) and as with the elevator room, remember to cover the vent!. For Aliens this is a good spot if humans have taken elevator room, put barricades at the sides of the door to slow down humans that try to slip in without having to block the bigger aliens. Trappers also work quite well here.




Humans Only

Door Hallway: Also known as the "slow door". I think this is the best spot for a human base in this map, and its not too far away from the default base, its in a relatively good position in the whole map (good distance from most places).  A 3 turret front can ussually hold the door and whatever build points are left go for turrets in the hallway, try to build them as close to the base as you can so they can't be sniped from the hallway. As before, you spread turrets a bit so you can walk between them.



Corner infront of human base: This spot doesn't really have a name, it's mainly for when there's no other option left. its the easiest to relocate to and can hold off quite well (as long as there is an active builder repairing the turrets). Only problem with it is that one of the sides only has room for 2 turrets, so you need defenders or a lot of attacking.



Personally, I wouldn't recommend building teslas in any spot in this map (except in the dark staircase) or building in the outside or the high areas, its known that bases in big open areas just don't work.
Logged

ttp://tremmapping.pbwiki.com/
Paradox

*
*

Turrets: +253/-250
Posts: 2610


I eat babies!


WWW
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 12:59:50 AM »

Upstairs is good also.
But the best is under the stairs, you can box everything in so tight with MGs and eventually teslas that a Tyrant will die in 3 sec.
Logged


∧OMG ENTROPY∧
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 11:19:24 PM »

If you mean the upstairs area of the default human base I have to strongly disagree; it's extremely weak against dragoons.
Logged
Paradox

*
*

Turrets: +253/-250
Posts: 2610


I eat babies!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 12:18:11 AM »

Yea, every game i play with some guy setting the base up upstairs ends with both teams level 3, and no one winning, or human losses. Under the stairs is by far the best place, but up on the pipes is good, because goons cannot get in, and it a few turrets take care of other bugs.
Logged


∧OMG ENTROPY∧
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 01:34:56 AM »

You're probably thinking of arachnid2, not karith. Karith doesn't really have pipes to build on.

And if you are talking about arachnid2 and mean the stairs by the default human base, then again I would have to disagree: it's way too small and open. Upstairs is actually a fairly good spot to build, but not as good as the u-turn in the lower path exiting the human base. The pipes are pretty good as well but getting to them is impractical.
Logged
Silverius


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 167


« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 03:09:25 PM »

In ATCS there are three common base locations: default, (middle) building and tunnel.

The default base has two entrances which can be fairly well defended. This is rather unusual as default bases commonly suck bigtime.

The middle building makes a decent base for humans, if the single exit is well defended. It's highly advisable to kick teammates who consider grenades a vital element of interior decoration before moving here. Be careful of advanced mauraders though, the cramped setup means their lightning attack can do a fair amount of damage and a few kamikaze adv mauraders could very well kill your base.

For aliens it's not recommended to move to the middle building as most humans consider grenades an excellent addition to alien interior decoration.

The tunnel is a place where some folks like to move. As a human base it's not too bad, perhaps better than the building as in the tunnel aliens can't jump away as easily and the tunnel entrance in the alien base is typically less well defended than the main entrance. You can face two fronts with the tunnel though, and that's worse than the building.

For aliens the tunnel is suicide. Human weapons can easily deal with any protections you put in from a safe distance. I've seen it work, but that was because the alien team simply never let the humans near the tunnel.
Logged
AnubisReturns


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 5


« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2006, 01:04:52 AM »

in uncreation, imo humans should move to the room immediately infront of default base. but this would require good cover fire and works better when the team is about 5+. then around stage 2 move forward once more. opinions?
Logged
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2006, 03:40:08 PM »

Definitely. I usually put the reactor on the right side, closer to the alien exit than the human so that it can power the next room. There's no reason to move again though; the intersection room isn't really as good a spot for a full base but works fine with just a few turrets to seal aliens off (and the map is so small you don't even need to move the armoury/med up unless aliens are completely holed up but still surviving).

If your team can't make it to there at least move the reactor up to the other end of the bridge (behind the little pedestal thing) in the default base so it can power turrets by the entrances to that room. Even if you had repeaters to do that spreading a base so far out means certain death. Armoury goes directly behind the reactor (wide side facing the wide sides of the room so the reactor completely hides it) and medistation immediately behind that. Spread turrets more or less evenly between covering vital structures and the doorways (it's not good to let aliens into that room unmolested by turrets). The defense computer can be built up in a high spot. I suppose teleporters could go up there too, as long as people don't mind healing right after jumping down every time.
Logged
icono[celt]


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 14


« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2006, 09:18:42 PM »

On Transit I've seen three locations other than the default, the far edge of the balcony to the left of the starting base, the blood room down the tunnel to the right of the first base, and the escalator room down in the terminal itself.  I've only played one game in the blood room, and one in the escalator, but they both seemed to be pretty solid base locations.  The only problem I could see is that the move to the blood room is hard since it is directly on the route a lot of aliens take, and the escalator room is even farther along that same path.  I'd like someone else with a bit more experience on those bases to give some feedback.

Also, does anyone have a base that works on Tremor?  I have yet to play a game where the starting base can effectively stand up to a good alien team since goons and mara can jump right over any door defenses and blitz the reactor/armory.
Logged
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2006, 08:02:48 PM »

I'd say that Transit has three feasible base locations for humans: the balcony, the blood room (also known as the doughnut/donut room), and the platform (go straight from the default location, over the boxes to that long room room that ends in an opening down onto the trains, the platform is the area with the ladder on the right). The blood room is the only one I consider "solid" but the other two are easier to set up in.

The balcony seems like a great base until  aliens get advanced goons, at which point it utterly falls apart. So if your team sets up there you better end the game fast.

The platform looks like it was meant to have a base but it's not much better than picking any random wall and setting up against it - meaning it's only as good as the number of players defending (without teslas or defenders a goon can fly straight onto the top of the reactor and kill it without taking significant damage).

The blood room however is a very good location because it's so tight and one of the entrances is long and straight (so attackers can be chased down easily). It is not a good base for sitting in and camping (which is why a lot of people seem to think it's bad). Just make sure to set it up so you can walk all the way around it. Reactor goes in the corner (the far one on the left if you're coming down the stairs from the default human base) with the armoury nearby against a wall (people will still stand in front of it and block everyone, but they won't have to). Three turrets per door and one near the vital structures. Teslas work well too.


Now, there happen to be quite a few other locations that make for good human bases, but getting to them and setting up isn't usually practical. So don't consider these in large, serious games.

I saw someone move a stage 3 base up to the foggy patch in the ceiling by the default location, which seems like it could actually work (see http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=873), but I'd never recommend making a move like that in a real game.

The top of the escalators makes a good base for humans too, as long as they resist the urge to stuff everything as far back as possible. You always want your important structures to be covered by turrets/teslas, which means it'd be better to put them up front where your main defense goes.

Humans can build in the train car aliens don't start out in.

The "sand area" (that place with the vent and pipes that connects to the long, wide ramp and stairs that open out to the big area adjacent to alien default) makes an excellent human base too, but aliens have to be completely oblivious to let you set up there.

--------------------

As for Tremor, the default room is the best humans have, and it really is good enough against everything if a few (a few not everyone) people defend it. The map is small enough that you can get away with having some defenders. That said, I think building in the corner between the door and the other exit might work better against marauders. I haven't really tested it yet, but you'd be able to cover both entrances, and turrets could be built up high enough to block marauders. What you don't want to do is put the reactor way back in that little hallway. All that does is prevent you from building turrets to cover the ramp entrance.
Logged
icono[celt]


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 14


« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2006, 04:37:19 PM »

I tested the reactor location you mentioned (in the corner between the big door and the back entrance) and it looked good.  Armory and medistation jammed next to it along the wall, 1 telenode on the planter, 3 mg turrets on each door and three put on the planters to provide marauder coverage for the inner base.  The door defenses can cover the inner base much better there, and with teslas it gets even better.
Logged
Stakhanov


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 64


« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2006, 05:53:55 PM »

Quote from: "Catalyc"

Karith

Elevator Room:

Personally I wouldn't recommend Humans to move there in a serious game, too risky and its also a common alien spot.


Unfortunately , that's not the thinking of most pub humans. All they want is easy fragging , and seem to never get bored of luci spamming the door and vent. Makes for a very tedious game for aliens , usually finishing in a draw or human win if enough aliens left the game , letting them attack with maxed credits.

Therefore the map is broken , but would be so easy to fix - just make the elevator work as it should and move fast from the floor to the top. Although a roof access usable by all classes would work just as well.

If not fixed , then the only defense the aliens have against such abuse is to leave the server and wait for another map. But it is enraging to have this when humans just got their previous base trashed in a coordinated offensive.
Logged
Quaoar


Turrets: +1/-0
Posts: 152


« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2006, 06:40:39 PM »

You really think that about elevator room? So long as humans don't get into a camping mood, it's good. The area immediately in front of the door splits in two directions, plus the vent up top is easily defended yet allows you to either go back around to the front of your base to maybe surprise attackers or pick off the wounded, or you can go the other way to the rest of the level at large. Doesn't seem like a camping deathtrap like the window room at all. It's just frustrating to set up in there with the elevator being so generally useless at S1, it takes a good coordinated effort so you can secure the top.
Logged
Stof


Turrets: +1/-1
Posts: 1344


« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2006, 10:57:19 AM »

Quote from: "Stakhanov"
Quote from: "Catalyc"

Karith

Elevator Room:

Personally I wouldn't recommend Humans to move there in a serious game, too risky and its also a common alien spot.


Unfortunately , that's not the thinking of most pub humans. All they want is easy fragging , and seem to never get bored of luci spamming the door and vent. Makes for a very tedious game for aliens , usually finishing in a draw or human win if enough aliens left the game , letting them attack with maxed credits.

Therefore the map is broken , but would be so easy to fix - just make the elevator work as it should and move fast from the floor to the top. Although a roof access usable by all classes would work just as well.

If not fixed , then the only defense the aliens have against such abuse is to leave the server and wait for another map. But it is enraging to have this when humans just got their previous base trashed in a coordinated offensive.


Karith Elevator early base move => Aliens win the game. When you play alien on that map, there are 2 things you must do; The first is secure the long passage above the human base. The second is to secure ( with a single good dretch ) the evelator room.

Doing both of that will greatly increase the alien win ration on that map. If the humans do an early base move to the elevator room, kill them there ( or even wait for them to build the reactor first Wink ) and kill the original base quick. As soon as you get a dragoon or marauder, kill the telenodes.
Logged

urphy's rules of combat
8 ) Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
18 ) Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't get out.
Gimp


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 23


« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2006, 12:27:07 AM »

Norfenstein, this is a link in the faq section of the forum, a section most new players will read which later on ends up with a newbie with a granger or construction kit, trying to follow ur base ideas. now while the ideas themselves are not bad, the newbies attempting to replicate them are bad and almost always ends up in a game where the newbie gets kicked, wondering what they did wrong. im trying to say that newbies follow ur ideas and end up getting everyone killed/pissed off. im not trying to insult u and i dont want an arguement.
Logged
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2006, 09:12:00 PM »

Quote from: "Gimp"
im trying to say that newbies follow ur ideas and end up getting everyone killed/pissed off. im not trying to insult u and i dont want an arguement.

Um, okay, it's not like this is my fault so I wouldn't be offended. The impetus for making this post was so new players would know the names (and corresponding locations) of new bases so they could cover experience players building there. If they want to build there themselves then cover them, chances are the base will still be better than the default.
Logged
Gimp


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 23


« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2006, 10:17:03 PM »

yeah, i see ur point but 1 man covering 1 builder isnt much use if ur enemies have already reached a higher stage and are trying to finish u off.
Logged
treeSkwerral


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 10


« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2006, 03:33:17 AM »

Nexus in the hallway on the right of the human base is very common and a very horrid spot for the human base.  Why people put it there bewilders me.  It's easily sniped by adv goons.  Best spot is the catwalk in the hallway behind the reactor.  Two turrets can be built with a little distance in between then decon the reactor and move it there.  Build turret semi-circles at the doors and use the space between the pipes for your spawn and armoury.  The medstation goes next to the armoury of course.  That base setup has served me well (aka I've never lost nor tied with it).  Anyone who has gone against me when I got it knows what I'm talking about.
Logged
kozak6


Turrets: +20/-26
Posts: 1089


« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2006, 03:39:14 AM »

Quote from: "treeSkwerral"
Nexus in the hallway on the right of the human base is very common and a very horrid spot for the human base.  Why people put it there bewilders me.  It's easily sniped by adv goons.  Best spot is the catwalk in the hallway behind the reactor.  Two turrets can be built with a little distance in between then decon the reactor and move it there.  Build turret semi-circles at the doors and use the space between the pipes for your spawn and armoury.  The medstation goes next to the armoury of course.  That base setup has served me well (aka I've never lost nor tied with it).  Anyone who has gone against me when I got it knows what I'm talking about.


I've always had my eye on that for a base, but never tried it.

How vulnerable is it to sniping?
Logged

treeSkwerral


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 10


« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2006, 02:42:55 PM »

Quote
I've always had my eye on that for a base, but never tried it.

How vulnerable is it to sniping?


Which one, the catwalk?  Let me put it to you this way, the third time I made it we were S1 and the aliens were S3 due to heavy human feeding.  I was the only builder and the tyrant assaults never worked.  Half the time the tyrants wouldn't make it out of the door.  Sniping has no room because of the doors and the fact that you have to be soo close in proximity of the turrets to keep the doors open that you just get shot at and die.  So it's snipe proof.  The only aliens that really can penetrate and get into the base are the wallwalkers and they don't have enough life to be able to do much of any damage in the base.  You usually have enough power left for the two original turrets on either side of the reactor to be left alone and still have the semi-circle of turrets at the door.  So those two turrets will take care of anything that goes to attack from the middle pipelines.  Basically, it's the most secure place I've ever seen for a base.  The trick is not holding it, it's getting it up due to the fact that dretches can take it down much less anything bigger.  So you have to be fast, coordinated, and  above all else sneaky.  The last time I made it I had a complete noob team and had to run back to the base on my own and decon the reactor and come back to make it.  So it's possible even with a noob team. (The other builder was literally new to the game)  The other advantage about a base on the catwalk is that any humans down below will be confused on the alien's radar.  So if you don't literally see the person, you won't know they are downstairs.  I found that out the first time I made the base and fell through one of the openings and managed to build a turret behind a waiting goon that was a couple feet in front of me.  With the two turrets that cover the reactor, you can also put them right outside the alien's door below the catwalk.  I've done it and just camped between them durring S1 opening the door and blasting their base.  I managed to take out 3/4 of it with my blaster alone due to the protection of the two turrets.

So to tell  you the truth it's a lot of fun for the base to be there.  First time I made it there were like four or five guys spectating me and thought it was a great base and a very funny match (due to the very confused aliens).[/quote]
Logged
Jaradcel


Turrets: +1/-0
Posts: 147


« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2006, 04:21:45 AM »

Question:

For arachnid, what's a good base location for humans?

The first one I see many people gun for is the U shaped tunnel that's right on the same level as the base they start out at.

Another ( And probably the worst) is right under the stairs at their starting base

The third is "upstairs" in the room with a few crates (The one just up the staircase)

I've toyed with the idea of going a little further from that room to the LOONNNGGG corridor just beyond it, but what do others think?

Also, I notice a trend which supports human bases using anything that gets in the way of aliens in order to trap them (doors, sudden curves etc)

Is it a good idea to stick guns (or teslas) at corners? I know long distance bases are adv 'goon sniper fodder so.... Huh?

Finally - If you're moving a base "close by" (like say in arachnid, again.. heheh) is it a better idea to spend the first few moments slamming a gun up someplace where you're building (say, upstairs, or in the U corridor) or is it better to take the reactor and run with it?


Also, back on arachnid - I've never found a "good" spot for aliens to build their base in. The initial base is flat out BAD, and building on the ledge on top of it is equally dumb. I've seen bases which cram an egg and the OM inside the vents, but that eventually gets found (and it's 'nade fodder anyway)
The alternative to that is to build in the pillars where the base originally is, but that's usually one of the first spots most people look for too. It seems like the map really favors humans on the offensive, but leaves them pretty weak defensively (unless they move, and move FAST)

Thoughts?
Logged

TOP DRETCHING THE ENGINEER!!!! =(
And fer christsake, DON'T BUILD IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!
treeSkwerral


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 10


« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2006, 04:41:10 AM »

First of all the worste place for the human base is in the U shaped hallway.  It's a pathetic move and EASILY sniped from both sides.  Now the best spot on that map is the in the junction on the pipes outside the box room.  It's not an easy move but I have never seen it fail once it was up.  Can't remember who started that one but it's Tyrant proof which helps a great deal to start with.  Anyplace around the human default base is not a really great area if there is any feeding going on.  Now if there is nearly zero feeding, under the stairs or upstairs is a fine place but that's not an event that happens all too often.
Logged
kozak6


Turrets: +20/-26
Posts: 1089


« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2006, 05:12:59 AM »

I have seen humans build in there once.

If the human team doesn't have the aliens on the run, it can be very dangerous.

They got boxed in, and were forced to camp until SD set in.

The defenses were slowly sniped, and any human who exited the base was killed until they were low on funds.  From there, the defenses were finally finished off, and humans were spawncamped by smaller bugs and sniping goons.  The end came relatively soon afterwards.
Logged

Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2006, 08:25:59 PM »

Quote from: "treeSkwerral"
Nexus in the hallway on the right of the human base is very common and a very horrid spot for the human base.

Quote from: "treeSkwerral"
First of all the worste place for the human base is in the U shaped hallway.

I would caution against taking treeSkwerral's advice on base building. His idea for a base on the catwalk in Nexus sounds intriguing, but both of these bases he's said are bad have been proven to be very effective when properly built, and the ease of moving to them makes them even more attractive. No base is absolutely impenetrable, so when aliens get classes in stage 3 that are actually useful for assaulting bases humans will always need to put some players on defense.

Jaradcel: you have the right idea about Arachnid2, and it seems building in general.
  • Under the stairs is basically as good as putting a base up against any random wall: your team might last a while with heavy defense, but stage 3 aliens will plow right over it.
  • Upstairs is fairly decent, with one or two defenders the long hallway can effectively be sealed off but you'll still be vulnerable on the other side.
  • The U-turn is usually the best option for humans. Yes it can be sniped, and yes it is cramped enough that the entire human team can't camp there, but with modest corridors at both exits any attacking alien will take heavy damage trying to get through and can then be chased down and killed.
  • I've tried building in the long corridor upstairs but found it lacking. Perhaps only using teslas it can work, but there's not really any good way to place turrets. It's narrow enough that however they're placed goons can just leap straight over them and there's not enough room for humans to effectively make up for it on their own.
I've also never really found a satisfactory place for aliens on arachnid2. Usually I build on the pipes (at the "intersection" adjacent to the box room, near the human base), but that's quite vulnerable to jetpacks (though you can then build forward very effectively if your team is holding the humans in). The platform above the default base is actually better than you might think since it's a long walk from the human base to there your small army of grangers will often have enough time to just rebuild after every human attack. In truth, egg spam works rather well on this map and treating the vent room as a temporary holding place can be quite frustrating for humans.
Quote from: "Jaradcel"
It seems like the map really favors humans on the offensive, but leaves them pretty weak defensively (unless they move, and move FAST)
If you meant to say aliens are favored offensively but not defensively, I'd agree. Opposite for humans.

About turret/tesla placement: Turrets should always be placed where they will have to turn as little as possible, so making a "gauntlet" of them isn't the best way to use them. Teslas are different, but you still want to prevent aliens from speeding between all your defenses. What I like to do at open doorways (like the long exit in the human base on tremor) is put a tesla on both sides and turret in the middle (or even another tesla if there are points free) to slow aliens down (fully expecting that it'll have to be rebuilt over and over). So yea, teslas let you move things around a little more to avoid sniping.

About moving bases a short distance from the starting location: If you need to set up defense that will just lose power later on when you move the reactor then your team isn't doing its job at all. With smart humans that have good aim you can put off making turrets until even after the reactor, armoury, and med are up, but on maps like arachnid2, nexus, and karith (which have decent spots very close to the defaults, which universally suck) you can usually get away with just building as fast as you can (reactor first) since the aliens have far enough to go to get to you. If you have no help whatsoever from your teammates then you can try making two turrets after the reactor (one turret is never enough on its own, but can help out teammates very well), but the alien team will have to be even more incompetent than yours.
Logged
Jaradcel


Turrets: +1/-0
Posts: 147


« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2006, 03:30:17 PM »

Norfenstein:

I have trouble visualising this - How do I squeeze all the items into that U shaped corridor?

The issues I've found while being forced to build/log into a game where the base is built there are usually this:

a) The turrets are strung along the two mini-corridors, which makes them easily vulnerable to a lone 'goon running in, swiping like mad and running out (and later, to sniping from adv's goon's or adv marauders)

b) There just doesn't seem to be enough space to jam everything in. Since the pathway allows for only one person to walk (another person bypassing usually has to jump on the pipe there, and that's also the usual build spot for base items) I find it difficult to jam the essential's in without also jamming up the entire base.

My usual deeds after slamming the reactor up and regaining build-power is to drop a turret in the main avenue the aliens can come from (Often, not the one that I just took) and maybe another, before bringing a 'node, and then an armory online asap. After that, I'll usually build more guns until I notice my men are beginning to come back home and only then construct a medistation. Does that sound ok?

Could I ask for your opinion on the guns at sharp corners Norfestien? Thank you. Smiley

Finally, I notice some people suggesting that we "protect" teslas with turrets by placing one in front of the other - How good does that work really? In most all maps, it seems counterintuitive... and I've never quite had the chance to test if a building (or person) blocks a turret from shooting...


Getting back to good bases for the game

For Karith:
I adore the elevator room (I've yet to lose as a human once I get settled in in there) but I've tried Catalyc's Dark Staircase - It's terrible!

True, I can jam three guns at each door and everything else under the stairs (and a 'rant can't get to the armory, medistation or telenode due to space...) but unfortunately can turn his attention fully to the reactor.
Is there something I can do to improve that?
Logged

TOP DRETCHING THE ENGINEER!!!! =(
And fer christsake, DON'T BUILD IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2006, 01:59:41 AM »

I always arrange the reactor, armoury, med, and telenode like this:

With usually another tele on the other side, a turret next to the reactor and two turrets to the left of the armoury on the pipe (on unpatched servers all of these will actually fall through the pipe so place them carefully). I'm not certain what the best placement for the rest of the turrets is but I think at least one should be on the edge of the little stairs going down to either corridor to keep goons from landing all the way inside the base after a pounce. They rest should be kept inside, probably spread out so anything coming into will be fired upon from all directions. Never spread the turrets out into the corridors unless you have extra points. Teslas work really well in the base.
Crowding has never really been prohibitive for me here. If people don't need to go all the way across the base they can still use the med and armoury with someone standing on it, but more than that, the nature if the map is such that humans need to be highly aggressive to win and just shouldn't be spending that much time in the base. Two defenders can stick around on either side and not get in anyone's way (and defense will be necessary against stage 3). Advanced goons are definitely a problem but I'd say not not as much as with the next best alternative (upstairs), and tyrants really have a tough time punching through any turreted, defended corridor (and all aliens will have a harder time running away without a big room below your base to hang around in).

Quote from: "Jaradcel"
My usual deeds after slamming the reactor up and regaining build-power is to drop a turret in the main avenue the aliens can come from (Often, not the one that I just took) and maybe another, before bringing a 'node, and then an armory online asap. After that, I'll usually build more guns until I notice my men are beginning to come back home and only then construct a medistation. Does that sound ok?

I'll skip the initial turret if my teammates aren't completely oblivious (the nearest two turrets from the default base will still be powered with the reactor here). I never build a telenode until the rest of the base is up since the default ones are so close. So if I'm getting defense from my teammates it'll be reactor, armoury, med, then more turrets (okay, sometimes I build teles first if there's really no pressure, or the aliens are somehow managing to farm the original ones).

Not quite sure what you mean by turrets at sharp corners. If the turrets won't have to aim, and still block off the aliens than they're just as good as putting them before the sharp turn but less likely to be sniped by advanced goons. The upstairs on arachnid2 and the slow door on karith are good examples of bases touching long hallways that should have turrets directly around their corners. Usually I put a turret in the hallway too just so aliens  can't get as close without being hit.

About teslas+turrets: Structures will indeed block teslas and turrets from firing if placed in front of them. I thought it possible that teslas could shoot through each other or over top of a turret in front them but after testing both of these are false. A tesla behind a turret will hit aliens if they jump off the ground, but not even a tyrant will be hit otherwise (and tyrants can't even jump high enoug to be zapped in this case). So never build anything directly in the expected line of fire of turrets or teslas.

As for the dark staircase on karith: I never put more than a tele beneath the stairs. Reactor goes here:

where it can't be hit directly from either door. Arm and med can go next to it. I think I usually end up with only one turret covering them though, all the rest jammed around the doors, but it's not usually a problem (possibly because getting a base there usually means the aliens are asleep at the wheel or moved completely to the elevator room).
Logged
Jaradcel


Turrets: +1/-0
Posts: 147


« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2006, 03:17:30 PM »

Fresh off the evening press - Norfenstien, just tried that U shaped base setup you posted.

It works almost *too* well! If I have only one node, it works even better with the spare points for guns (though it's dicey) and I can see why now - The guns cover each other extremely well, and any goon will be able to take out at most one before it really needs to retreat.

I didn't ge tto test it, but what happens if we had TWO goons or more coordinating to jump in on the same corridor all at once though... hmm....

I didn't get to S3 either (I managed to take out the two lone spawns left hiding wahahaha!!) but I can see why teslas are going to be stupidly obscene in there....

As to my question on sharp corners - Essentially the idea is the same on turning to aim. Take, say, ATCS for instance. The side entrance for the human base. There's a sharp turn there right? And the humans almost universally build their guns BEFORE the turn leading out from the side entrance - Would you say it's a good idea to do that? Sticking guns in locations where aliens will HAVE to get in close (with no pounce from goons for instance) so that even if the gun goes down, it takes a few damage before it does?

Oh, and I just had a game with a man who built under the staircase on the snowy fields in Karith Station.... I thought he was mad, but he somehow set up the guns such that there were two embankments so goon's couldn't jump straight in and still covered each other well. That was quite  a sight.
Logged

TOP DRETCHING THE ENGINEER!!!! =(
And fer christsake, DON'T BUILD IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!
DPyro


Turrets: +0/-0
Posts: 5


« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2006, 04:15:24 AM »

I've found that the room in karith upstairs though the door from the human base is an excellent camperific spot in a pinch. Stick the reactor and defcomp in that pitch black zone under the stairs, put some mgs at the turn into the base (not quite all the way at the top doorway, but the corner instead), and put some mg's in front of the black understaircase zone. The main weakness is that it can be hard to reinforce the top when the bottom is under attack, but its a good base in a pinch.
Logged
Norfenstein

*

Turrets: +81/-78
Posts: 628



« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2006, 07:41:23 PM »

Quote from: "Jaradcel"
Sticking guns in locations where aliens will HAVE to get in close (with no pounce from goons for instance) so that even if the gun goes down, it takes a few damage before it does?

Exactly. In this particular spot I find it most annoying as a goon if the turrets are around the corner but close enough to it that I can't back up against the wall and ready a pounce without taking constant fire.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
TremPlus theme by Ingar, based on AF316 theme by Fedhog
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!