UTCS final version

[chompers]

OK, I'm finally going to finish and release the map UTCS. As I see it now, all that needs doing is copying textures across and recompiling so that it doesn't rely on the standard pk3s being present, and adding due credits for the textures in a readme.

But, the Australian servers I play on don't run any custom maps at all, so by now some people on this forum will know how UTCS plays much better than I would know. I think the biggest game I ever had on it was 6 or 7 people, and that was some time ago.

So, I am asking here before I release the final version. Are there any known problems or annoyances with the map, or any ways it should be improved before final release?

[vcxzet]

nice to see you back
gameplay is good
it is like atcs

[Smokey]

OK, I'm finally going to finish and release the map UTCS. As I see it now, all that needs doing is copying textures across and recompiling so that it doesn't rely on the standard pk3s being present, and adding due credits for the textures in a readme.

But, the Australian servers I play on don't run any custom maps at all, so by now some people on this forum will know how UTCS plays much better than I would know. I think the biggest game I ever had on it was 6 or 7 people, and that was some time ago.

So, I am asking here before I release the final version. Are there any known problems or annoyances with the map, or any ways it should be improved before final release?

None, its a really good map.

[n00b pl0x]

probably the best beta

[Survivor]

Complete map in my opinion. Tested on derelict up to 14 players and it held up in all games. Congratulations and hope you submit it for inclusion in the next version of trem.

[techhead]

The stage-door bunkers are a little cramped, extremely hard to maneuver in there.
Other than that, the map rocks!!!

[chompers]

Wow, this thread is a pleasant suprise.

Do humies ever setup base in the bunkers, or do people prefer the default?

[Ryanw4390]

Every game I played the Humans stay at default, but in at least one or two games I've seen aliens venture down into the bunkers, but usually both teams stay at the defaults. But yeah I just finished playing it, great map

[Odin]

It my experience it's a pretty human-sided map. The humans start off at the best building location so it gives them no incentive to move and the complete incentive to mass turrets. Aliens hardly ever win at all.

[n00b pl0x]

That's because most aliens now rely on badly planned human base moves and egg spam to win them games, and this map doesn't allow for either. I've won plenty of games as aliens, and I consider it one of the most balanced map. Though many of my alien wins have had to wait until SD to win.

[Odin]

Mirrored maps in Tremulous don't work because of the MAJOR differences in the races.

[n00b pl0x]

Mirrored maps can and will work if both races are given equal opportunities to play their strengths. I believe UTCS does this well and therefore it DOES work.

[chompers]

I agree completely that the difference in teams means that you cannot rely on symmetry to balance a map, but I disagree that maps with symmetry don't work.

With UTCS my aim was to acheive balance within each half. Symmetry just makes the map layout easier to remember and works on the familiar 'staged combat' theme.

The other goal was to keep it as small as possible, as an alternative to ATCS when you have only 4-6 people on a server.

However, small maps will always favour humans, and because UTCS is so small, the first versions of this map were very biased towards humans. Humans are weaker the further they get from base, aliens can't evolve in close proximity, and aliens often survive a destroyed base by stealth and backup eggs. On the other hand, maps with a lot of vertical options let aliens take advantage of their better mobility.

So the question is whether there is enough vertical play to offest the smallness. I have considered adding an extra area beneath the center, perhaps connecting the bunkers, or adding granger escape vents in certain places.

Each version of this map has been more alien friendly than the last. If you have suggestions to make UTCS more alien friendly Odin, then please share them, that's exactly what this thread is for.

[Stof]

UTCS is a great map. But there's one thing that could use some change : the alien base is horrible for bigger aliens navigation. And there are quite a few spots behind those crates where big aliens cannot go at all.

[vcxzet]

aliens are not welcome in human structures

[Lava Croft]

Apart from the obvious lack of motivation you show off with UTCS, the most important thing is that the gameplay is seriously lacking. Whereas on ATCS a camping Human team is pretty much dead pretty fast, on UTCS, due to the layout and location of the base, a camp can drag on for ages. I would suggest editing the map a bit, so that at least the most horrid camping is reduced. Apart from that, as you know, the map is fine. It's just that I don't like it.

[Greudin]

What about improving a bit overall wallwalking for drechts ? Cant wallwalk middle pillars without  been "ejected".

[chompers]

Good point Stof, and now fixed. No more hiding from tyrants behind the crates in the alien base.

Lava, I really don't know what to say to your comments. I dislike camping as much as anybody. Do you have an actual suggestion to discourage camping, or should I just work on my motivation and edit the map a bit to add some gameplay?  :roll:

edit: Greudin, do you mean coming off the pillars if you run around them horizontally?

[Ryanw4390]

I've noticed some problems when trying to wallwalk as well. When I get home I'll try and remember to re-edit this to show specifically where, but mainly its in the middle of the map.

[techhead]

You cannot wall-walk on stage-doors, but they are hard to tell apart from walls when they are still closed.

[kaziorvb]

well, imo its very good map, but there are almost no places to hide/run and theres no place to move the bases (well only the stage bunkers..) - it causes some balance problems. i would like to see some more corridors, vents or something ^^ but map is very nice tho

[Lava Croft]

or should I just work on my motivation and edit the map a bit to add some gameplay?

Take a guess...  :wink:

[chompers]

Added a small room at the top in the center.


It will be difficult, but not impossible for either team to get a builder there in stage 1.


All alien units except tyrant and s1 granger can get there unassisted.
For humans, you need jetpack, or you can build a repeater in the right spot to reach a ladder, or the ladders are reachable by grenade, flamer or luci jumping, or by getting a leg up from a team mate.




I think this will tilt the balance to favour aliens, maybe even too much. The top room is an excellent place for a backup egg and booster, although marauders might find reaching it a bit tricky. Alien grangers should be able to heavily entrench the center if the humans are camping.

Getting a human base up there would be difficult, but probably worth it.

[Survivor]

Then call it another beta , look forward to playing it.

[gareth]

could you add a vent as another way to get to the room?, just to stop it being such a campsite.

[chompers]

could you add a vent as another way to get to the room?, just to stop it being such a campsite.

You mean the human default location, or the new 'top' room? I dont think the top room would benefit from a vent, but I have looked at putting vents into the bases before, but wasnt happy with how it affected the map.

[gareth]

I meant the top room.

[Lava Croft]

Good job chompers, more possibilities hopefully means less boring campathons. I like that small room in the center, it might actually make moving your Alien base a bit forward less suicidal

[PHREAK]

I personally am not a big fan of UTCS but it has a lot of potential.
I personally prefer mid sized maps even as human since it turns the game more strategic rather then the obvious kill kill rush defend.

That said, UTCS game-play relies on momentum. Whoever makes the few initial kills and rushes commands the map till the end.
Tyrants are not very effective on the map due to the strange geography and small rooms/corridors.

There are also some wall-walking issues, especially the middle hall.
Drethes have to jump to connect to walls since simply walking against a wall stops you dead in your tracks.

I personally don't mind this being a human map since aliens have plenty of problems on other maps.
One issue I see is the fact that maras are very hard to navigate and lose their potential as base killers and ninja behaviour.
Not sure if this is fixable just by tweaking the map so I don't think anything can be done about it since it might require massive changes that would completely change the map.

One thing I very much like is the fact that it promotes the Basilisk.
2 good basi's can really turn the page on the humans on this map.

Good job creating this map.
Generally, it works well for what it's meant to be.
I hope you don't take my comments as anything but constructive criticism.

[chompers]

Thanks PHREAK, that is exactly the kind of comment I was waiting for before finishing the map.

I didn't get what people meant by wallwalking problems in the center untill you put it that way, and it should be easy to fix with some playerclip brushes to round off the edges. I get what you are saying about momentum, and that is the kind of thing I was going for - like atcs, only moreso.

For the mara's base killing potential, maybe lifting the ceilings around the base areas will open things up for them.

As luck would have it, my local servers installed the tremulous.info map pack since I started this thread, so I've been able to have a few more games on it recently. I've actually found that aliens tend to win it more often than humans, but that might have something to do with me playing as granger / basi till s3.

[Seffylight]

Added a small room at the top in the center.

+1

I have a moderate dislike for UTCS, more so than my slight dislike for ATCS. However, I think this is an improvement that could definitely change my feelings about the map.

[holyknight]

yay make more rooms that goes up and up! That'd be a fun game.

[Fluxflashor]

Wow, this thread is a pleasant suprise.

Do humies ever setup base in the bunkers, or do people prefer the default?

Whenever I play I usually [with cover] build under the ledge for the hummies base, and it holds up well til S3 snipers. The bunkers I imedietly at s2 run like an idiot with a conkit to the ones near aliens and build repeater and turrets, help kill dretches passing by

I like the fact though that you used the textures from ATCS, really gives it a nice feel to it. Can't wait to play the final version, definetly I'll be getting that on the MW server rotations.

It is a great map for clan wars because it is identicle, unlike maps like nives or karith, where there are dead end hallways great for bases.

I do see more alien wins there just because of the concentration of the hallways, no one can escape running tyrants, or it's just really hard.

Thanks for all the great work.

[hodge]

Nice chompers, the map is among the better maps for tremulous.

[n00b pl0x]

bump for great justice

chompers i want you back

[ACKMAN]

Sorry about bumping but.... where is chompers?

[Death On Ice]

Sorry about bumping but.... where is chompers?

Dead.
How come I never see the version with that room at the top of the middle played?

[ACKMAN]

does any1 know anything of him??

[Snake]

does any1 know anything of him??

you dont know how to read?

Dead.

And about the map... it is nice, well, almost i have to do something with this necro post.

[ACKMAN]

-.- dead is not an answer(well... if it is true.... U_U)

[Death On Ice]

-.- dead is not an answer(well... if it is true.... U_U)

A. Dead is an answer.
B. It's not true.

[chompers]

Not dead. I was banned from the one server I used to play on, for 'modding' no less, and being in Australia didn't have any other server options, so I kinda moved on to other games.

Anyway, just got a PM asking about this map, uh, I don't think the final version ever got compiled.

From memory, I still had to go through and replace all the textures so that they aren't shared with ATCS, which in itself seems a bit silly to me, since everyone has ATCS. The other thing is that whenever I played the map, humans always won if they played aggressively enough, so the changes made things easier for s2 aliens, but then I heard that out in the real world humans usually camp and lose on UTCS anyway, so the changes would only make that worse.

So yeah, I think maybe it wont ever get released.

[Stythys]

but then I heard that out in the real world humans usually camp and lose on UTCS anyway, so the changes would only make that worse.

bad players is not an excuse to not release a final version

[ACKMAN]

Chompers i love UTCS( favourite map ) and i think you will release it... please

Do it for him--> :3

[Hendrich]

Yea, its one of the popular custom maps in Tremulous, you can;t just drop it because of players being idiots. 

Continue your work man, don't let what others do keep you from doing your work. 

[The Me]

Please release it. If you are too lazy/busy, just give it to me (or someone else) and have them quickly fix the textures so all your UTCS fans can play the final version

[Lakitu7]

From memory, I still had to go through and replace all the textures so that they aren't shared with ATCS, which in itself seems a bit silly to me, since everyone has ATCS.

Sounds like someone's making you do that, but considering nobody has the authority to make you do that, I'm rather confused. If it's silly to you, don't do it.

[xenom[GER]]

From memory, I still had to go through and replace all the textures so that they aren't shared with ATCS, which in itself seems a bit silly to me, since everyone has ATCS.

Sounds like someone's making you do that, but considering nobody has the authority to make you do that, I'm rather confused. If it's silly to you, don't do it.

Why not copy the textures to /UTCS/textures/? So he doesn't have to care if ATCS is installed.
It is a standard map of Trem, so I think it doesn't matter if he uses those textures (as long as he gives credits). At least that's what I did in Orion.

[UniqPhoeniX]

Why not copy the textures to /UTCS/textures/? So he doesn't have to care if ATCS is installed.
It is a standard map of Trem, so I think it doesn't matter if he uses those textures (as long as he gives credits). At least that's what I did in Orion.

1. Because the game won't look in there, unless he changes the textures before compiling (use find+replace in text editor? I think some1 mentioned it can be done.)
2. Point is to not depend on other maps.

[Warp Viper]

Well I'm a big fan of the UTCS beta. If you do decide to finish it, I hope you don't muck it up.

I'm Aussie btw - I havn't seen you around in oh, about a year now. Perhaps you've changed names a LONG time ago or simply don't play any more? If you quit and do decide to read this: GA AREN'T THE ONLY AUSSIE SERVERS AROUND NOWADAYS.

[Kaleo]

GA AREN'T THE ONLY AUSSIE SERVERS AROUND NOWADAYS.

But when TW is your only alternative (don't get me started on AusScrim), GA is still the best.

Maturity wise, and admin wise. That's right; p0m and rebound are gone.

[nubcake]

GA AREN'T THE ONLY AUSSIE SERVERS AROUND NOWADAYS.

But when TW is your only alternative (don't get me started on AusScrim), GA is still the best.

Maturity wise, and admin wise. That's right; p0m and rebound are gone.

Thats interesting seeing as ive NEVER seen you on Auscrim before, and 3/4 of av are admin on it, and play on Auscrim over every other server....

[xenom[GER]]

Why not copy the textures to /UTCS/textures/? So he doesn't have to care if ATCS is installed.
It is a standard map of Trem, so I think it doesn't matter if he uses those textures (as long as he gives credits). At least that's what I did in Orion.

1. Because the game won't look in there, unless he changes the textures before compiling (use find+replace in text editor? I think some1 mentioned it can be done.)
2. Point is to not depend on other maps.

1. definately works. I already used that in my map to change some textures :-) Then he only has to make sure the new texturse are the same size as the ols ones.

[Kaleo]

GA AREN'T THE ONLY AUSSIE SERVERS AROUND NOWADAYS.

But when TW is your only alternative (don't get me started on AusScrim), GA is still the best.

Maturity wise, and admin wise. That's right; p0m and rebound are gone.

Thats interesting seeing as ive NEVER seen you on Auscrim before, and 3/4 of av are admin on it, and play on Auscrim over every other server....

Jake and Chuck... I say no more.

[nubcake]

Oh ok... even though there aer only 5 permabans on Auscrim in its 2 month period? Even though no one complains about admin abuse? As well you whine about EVERYONE so its probably better off without you

[Kaleo]

Five permabans doesn't prove anything. It's the fact that one of its owners is banned from TremWars for aimbotting.

[nubcake]

Five permabans doesn't prove anything. It's the fact that one of its owners is banned from TremWars for aimbotting.

Thats funny, if you have been on TW at all lately youll see neither one of them is banned

[Kaleo]

Yes, that is because TremWars is a fail server that gives people "second chances", no matter how blatantly they hack.

If I was still admin, both of you (or at least Chuck, since he's the one who I have a demo of hacking) would be banned.

On topic: Love your work, chompers. Not the most balanced of maps, but it looks good and has provided me with hours of entertainment. It's a winner as far as I'm concerned.

[+ OPTIMUS +]

probably the only non-standard clan war compatible map in the euro scene afaik. very nice.

[Warp Viper]

Yes, that is because TremWars is a fail server that gives people "second chances", no matter how blatantly they hack.

Oh, I see now, you're retarded.

Chompers: Do you still play?
I vote: fix anything that has been bugging you and release it as is. It seems balanced enough to me - matches consistantly swing both ways.

[The Me]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand and stfu about trem servers?


Find/replace on a text editor does work and is fairly easy todo. And as I said before,if you are too busy/lazy, why not give the map to me or someone else and have them do it because I am sure that many people would be willing to help so this map can be released.

[epsy]

can you fucking spam another thread with your useless crap about tremwars admins?
chompers is already quite discouraged about releasing a final version, and I doubt you can help him by trolling here.

go away

[chompers]

Just when you thought it was never going to happen...

http://www.evilbastard.org/slight/map-UTCSfinal.pk3

Before people go rehosting that file elsewhere, if a couple people could grab it and just double check that everything is order, like no missing textures or whatever, that would be great.

The map is prettymuch the same, only changes are:
-The little top room added
-playerclip brushes added near walls in center for the dretches and basis to wallwalk a bit easier.
-lighting settings are probably quite different

To answer a couple questions, no I haven't played trem in ages, but I will check out the new .au servers as soon as I'm not so damn busy.

Also, the .map file is included in this so anyone can mess with it.

Thanks, I guess, to those who kept bugging me about this, otherwise I'd have forgotten all about it.

[your face]

<3 *bows*

[Lakitu7]

Wow, I must say I never quite thought I'd see this. Awesome

Uploaded to mg map repo, mgdev, and puretrem servers.

[Knowitall66]

I had no texture issues ingame. Also looking at your .map file may I ask, Why did you put patch meshes over the caulked crates?(To get textures 'straight'?) Also why havent you caulked any of the map?

[ACKMAN]

<3 *bows*

  thank you

[chompers]

I had no texture issues ingame. Also looking at your .map file may I ask, Why did you put patch meshes over the caulked crates?(To get textures 'straight'?) Also why havent you caulked any of the map?

Cool, thanks for that.
Patches are just easier to texture when dealing with odd angles like that, and as for not using caulk... from memory, there is caulk in some hard to see places, but for the most part I didn't need it.

[Warp Viper]

xD *Hug*

[Odin]

I'm porting this map to Nexuiz, for CTF .

[Syntac]

I gotta get me some of that.

[Odin]

I'm not done with the normal/bump/gloss maps yet .

[chompers]

That's awesome Odin.

You know, it never occurred to me until just now to convert it to a standard Q3 CTF map...

[Odin]

I am done with the normal/bump/gloss maps now. It's almost ready. It just needs tweaked weapon/item locations.

[Odin]

It is now released for Nexuiz.

The short and sweet announcement.

[Archangel]

Hot damn. Looks nice. Maybe I should redownload Nexiuz..

[danmal]

Very nice, I'm glad you fixed the wall walking thing. That was my main annoyance with the map before.

[ghostisback]

I lose 50$ yesterday cause i dont know final version was out xD

BTW really a good work... only 1 little thing.. the new central room floor is too much small and a goon can pounch by under all buildings and hummies

Have Fun !!!