Why does everyone whine that trem is so unbalanced?

[Juno]

well?


do you enjoy playing the game? is winning everything?


does it matter that aleins "seem" to win alot, when in fact they do not? are you going to refuse to play trem because " zomG BBqpiZZA teh Gmae is un blansd!!!!1!!!!!112!!! tyxrants are way 2powefulz!!!"


i get dam frustrated when im the only one attacking the aliens. for example, i played a 3vs4 yesterday as humans, got us to s3 before the aliens, and as i was the only one leaving the base, asked the other 2 to build .


did they build? no. aliens got s3, and wiped the niveus base out in seconds


does this mean we should alter trem to make it harder for the aliens to win just because there are idiots around?


no it does not.

so why the hell does everyone want to change everything to make it easier for humans to win?


i agree, some maps are rather biased, but that may just be perceptions based to who feeds more

ATCS - human map, as aliens have only 1 chance at winning - theres no where they can run

but if humans feed, they they get pinned in by goons, and deserve too.



as for weapons, and suits, and changing aliens -please do not


luic cannons are by far the most effective way to take out aliens bases. on UTCS, ive seen the alien base go, within 48 seconds, as 3 lucis come and wipe it out


people complain about egg hunts, but have you ever considered that there might not be enough players in the server?

ive youve got 2 humans against 4 aleins who are egg soamming on arachnid and to a lesser extent tremor, then yes it will seem un balanced



/rant over



btw, the only thing about trem that i whine about is my connection  

[Stof]

Ok, I'm sorry to say that but your post is nothing more than a crude rant and a waste of bandwidth.

Look at http://www.tremulous.net/balance/Overall.png

Aliens win twice as many games as humans. How can you even dare to say that :

does it matter that aleins "seem" to win alot, when in fact they do not?

And I just don't want to spend my time to debunk everything else you've said. The only truth you've said is that lucys are indeed the best weapon to kill an alien base. And you could as well have said that the sky was blue instead for all that matters.

[[Kcorp]Noobius]

actually he's right. yesterday i was on funzone playing on transit and even though me and hellrider killed something like 10+ OMs and countless eggs and kept asking for the others to attack they just camped against a bunch of dretches and 2 maras and fed them until they got tyrants again ><
these are the same people that make their first thread about aliens being overpowered.

[David]

Humans are much more powerful than aliens, just they never attack.

[Stof]

Noobius"]actually he's right. yesterday i was on funzone playing on transit and even though me and hellrider killed something like 10+ OMs and countless eggs and kept asking for the others to attack they just camped against a bunch of dretches and 2 maras and fed them until they got tyrants again ><
these are the same people that make their first thread about aliens being overpowered.

He's wrong when he says that aliens do not win more. They win twice more games than humans.

And having played a game with crappy humans does not prove the game balanced. Else I could talk of all those games where aliens lost after 4-5 attacks with nothing more than rifles which took out one egg now and then but they never bothered to replace them.

And then, how could they camp AND feed at the same time? You have to be an uber noob to feed when staying behind your turrets. The whole alien team would have got tyrants in 30 seconds top if they got out!
 

[Neo]

The game isn't balanced but its not hideously unbalanced like the whiners would have you believe.

Human camping usually involves hanging around their turrets for a quick retreat should they get attacked by anything bigger than a pixel. The noobs never camp behind the turrets, always seem to be infront of them.

[jal]

I wouldn't say the game is unbalanced, but I'd say there are a pair of issues that should be solved so games at many maps can't end in a forever tie (with humans only defending cause waiting for sudden death is the only thing they can do against egg spaming). They are: The jetpacks shouldn't have unlimited fuel, and the aliens shouldn't be able to plant eggs anywhere. In short, preventing impossible-to-attack human bases (built high - defended by flying people), and preventing the impossible-to-destroy alien bases (aka: egg spam). Solve these, and most whines will dissapear.

EDIT: And it would also allow to make more different maps.

[dr_Fell]

http://tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=32134#32134  

[[Kcorp]Noobius]

And then, how could they camp AND feed at the same time? You have to be an uber noob to feed when staying behind your turrets. The whole alien team would have got tyrants in 30 seconds top if they got out!
 

both aliens and hummies were noobs, the thing is the hummies tend to complain more(and make topics here).

[Moofed]

VV See sig. VV

[temple]

Humans are much more powerful than aliens, just they never attack.

Agreed.  That's why I don't bother playing humans.  When I or someone says 'OM down', noone moves.

[pyrax]

From: http://www.tremulous.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=30040#30040

Tremulous is not balanced. The graph does make it look worse than it is though.

That is why people say the game is unbalanced.

[1337 1]

Humans created speech out of a desire to complain.  They will whinge about anything to anyone.

[DKG]

Tremulous is extremely unbalanced.
I'm not talking about the trivial Human/Alien "statistical" advantages/disadvantages, pros/cons (which are merely a petty venting of ones frustration at loosing)
The REAL imbalance is ping-time(*or not, see below).
I've LOST as many games as Alien as I have Human.
This is NOT because of a shortcoming in the games balance.  It's purely because my aim is a little sluggish (*add a toutch of alcoholism, generously garnished with rediculous ping, and "Trem's Unbalanced"*)

*"Bob's your uncle"

Regardless, it's still endless fun!

[Juno]

VV See sig. VV

THANK YOU!


this is my point! if we nerf trem it wont be fun!

[Paradox]

Because they suck.

[_Equilibrium_]

I would say that the game is mostly balanced, maybe in favor of aliens in some things like SD. However, the reason why I believe aliens win so much more is because more experienced players like to play as aliens because they have played a lot of FPS games and wanted a different perspective.

[Diggs]

The greatest imbalance I see between the two is that for a human to take down an alien, say a tyrant, it takes an inordinate amount of time and ammo.  Using anything but the noob cannon, I have to do a long and protracted dance around a tyrant while continuously firing and hitting my mark without him getting more than one direct swipe at me.  In turn, it just takes a swipe of two by the tyrant and the human is dead.  Then, after my dance, its back to the base for more health and ammo whereas the alien does NOT have to return to base for health and ammo/food (hence we get into the camping discussion).  Yes, the hummies have weapons that can reach long distances, but there are very few of those long distances in Tremulous.  (And I'm not bringing the luci/noob cannon into this discussion as:  1)  Very few decent players use it and 2)  It usually does more damage to the hummie team than the aliens.)

I know someone can quote me hit points per weapon shot, per species, but you get the idea.  About the only time things are equal is a hummie with a shotgun against a dretch or bali where it is a one shot one kill against one pounce one kill.  Once you look at the larger species of aliens that can kill a human in one pounce and swipe, there is no equivalent for the human attacking an alien.  This is where I believe some of the perceived imbalance comes from.



Diggs

[Glunnator]

I used to really enjoy trem... Was perfectly balanced as far as i was concerned. But ppl who still ruin my fun are:

Uber-1337 players: too good to beat, and  so annoying when they also start laughing! xD

Deconners: self explanatory
General arrogant anitsocial nubcakes: self explanatory

any other obvious stuff for obvious reasons: self explanatorious
Etc.

[kevlarman]

I would say that the game is mostly balanced, maybe in favor of aliens in some things like SD. However, the reason why I believe aliens win so much more is because more experienced players like to play as aliens because they have played a lot of FPS games and wanted a different perspective.

i would say experienced players like aliens because you don't need as much help from your teammates to win the game, and your teammate are often noobs. (or maybe it's just because the noobs on your team don't have the option of camping, so they can do something helpful)

[St. Anger]

Humans are much more powerful than aliens, just they never attack.

You are a funny little kid. Aliens are MUCH more powerful than humans. People say that if humans attack as a team teams they can win but think about it. If aliens attack as a team: 5 Tyrants>5 Chainsuits who will win?
An experienced alien will beat an experienced human most of the time.

[Diggs]

OK Anger-

You said in 2 sentences what took me 2 paragraphs to say.

Diggs

[techhead]

Except that it is impossible for 5 Tyrants to run down a hallway, while 5 chainsuits can indeed fit.
Aliens are designed for individual effort.
Humans are designed for team effort.
Got that?

[rasz_pl]

Humans are much more powerful than aliens, just they never attack.

You are a funny little kid. Aliens are MUCH more powerful than humans. People say that if humans attack as a team teams they can win but think about it. If aliens attack as a team: 5 Tyrants>5 Chainsuits who will win?
An experienced alien will beat an experienced human most of the time.

with FF on humans win, tyrrants will slash each other or run away leaving the weakest/most stupid one
10:10 is another story

[techhead]

Don't forget about the blocking factor, even on non-ff servers.
Not enough passing room for 3 tryants, in almost any hallway.

[Neo]

5 chainguns/lucis/pulse rifles vs 2 tyrants at a time(based on average corridor width). Not hard to figure who would win in a 5v5.

[Stof]

Well, Tyrants do not have to wait in a long corridor to fight the humans you know.

[Lava Croft]

If all of you so-called pro's stopped going Aliens all the time, maybe the balance sheet would look a lot more natural. Right now it's just pussies going Aliens and newbies going Humans, while the rest whines about balance.

[Stof]

Ah the joys of psychology. On another forum, people were talking about Uncreation and a lot of players were saying that the map was bad because humans win often there. Then again, according to the stats uncreation is the only map with near perfect balance, compared to Transit which shows massively more wins for aliens than for humans

And to think that the stats were posted on page one and that it didn't stop people from spamming the rest of the thread with that same "humans win more often there" argument. It is as if the mind of all tremulous players has been twisted somehow and now, if humans win as much as aliens it means they win too much.

[kozak6]

The human wins hurt more at Uncreation because humans have to fuck up pretty bad to lose.

If the human team isn't terrible, they should be able to lock down the chokepoint hall and just camp till S2 or S3 before raining destruction down on the poor exposed alien base.