Unvanquished versus TremZ exclusive Drama thread

[E-Mxp]

why medkit poison immunity?

that encourages you to stay near a medistation at all times.  that means camping.

1.  i get bitten.  i pop a medkit.  i run back to base to get another.

Pre-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

After-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Wait... I am not poisoned! Now I can continue my attack on the alien base! Yay!
I got bitten again and now I AM poisoned! Balls!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

Why are people so angry about this? I fail to see how this is in any way as gamebreaking as some of you claim it is.

Just for perspective, according to my sources, 1.1 gives you a 30 second poison immunity, GPP gives you none and Unvanquished gives you 2 seconds(as of alpha 1).

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

why medkit poison immunity?

that encourages you to stay near a medistation at all times.  that means camping.

1.  i get bitten.  i pop a medkit.  i run back to base to get another.

Pre-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

After-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Wait... I am not poisoned! Now I can continue my attack on the alien base! Yay!
I got bitten again and now I AM poisoned! Balls!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

Why are people so angry about this? I fail to see how this is in any way as gamebreaking as some of you claim it is.

Just for perspective, according to my sources, 1.1 gives you a 30 second poison immunity, GPP gives you none and Unvanquished gives you 2 seconds(as of alpha 1).

nerf pounce and trample, nerf turrets, and poison immunity is also from 1.1?

and unvanq is not neo-1.1 how?

oh, and 2 seconds is forever in a fps.  how many seconds does it take to fire 5 rifle shots?  how many times do poison or bite cycle in two seconds?

wanna know why it is gamebreaking?  past hs1 dretches NEED poison to get evos.  any nerf to poison weakens the alien team as a whole and the dretch in specific.

without immunity, it is possible for the poison to kill the human running back for another medkit.  without, you cannot, especially with infinisprint.

and it makes camping a base that much more effective.

Goon changes, as I understand them, were not meant to "fix" anything in that matter - they were meant to stop the pounce spam (which IS a big issue) and encourage to use chomp more. I think it's a good thing.

why is pouncespam a thing that needs to be changed?

hell, why is anything in your changelog something that needed to be changed?  its a giant step back to 1.1, not moving forward as your project led me to believe.

but let's keep on track.... pouncespam. why should chomp be used more?  because it is bound to mouse1 by default?  because it is easier to escape chomp than it is pounce?  what is your resoning, because i can flip your logic around in so many different ways it is not even funny.

".... encourages the use of the blaster..."
"... encourages the use of luci primary fire over secondary ... "
"...encourages MDs to zoom..."


just connect each of those phrases to some stupid and pointless change and there you go.


hey, i have an idea, you guys should change your name again, somehow incorporate "xserver" into your project name...  this way everyone will know to expect bullshit and not a serious game.

[CorSair]

Pounce currently in GPP is quite effective. Too effective. You pounce someone to corner, and you get frag without much effort, even battlesuit goes down when you pouncespam.
Yes, I see there is load of fun in that.

[Asvarox]

If anything, I find the medkit change a help to newbies. More experienced players know that when you are fighting against poisoning dretch, the worst thing you can do is to use medkit right after being poisoned, because you will most likely get poisoned again. New players don't know about that. They die more -> game is less fun for them. After all, it's JUST DAMN 2 SECONDS NOT FOREVER.

why is pouncespam a thing that needs to be changed?

Because I believe that, at the very least, pounce should be used "in parallel to" not "as replacement of" chomp. Just imagine if luci secondary shot had splash damage and dealt half as much dmg as the fully charged blast. That's basically what happened to goon.

In 1.1, chomp is far superior to pounce.
In GPP, pounce is superior to chomp.
In Unv, I'd like to see balance between these two.

As for your "neo-1.1" babbling. GPP introduced quite a lot changes. The fact that it's "newer" doesn't mean that it's "better" all the way. Many players far more skilled than you and me have complained about the issues that were fixed with the changes introduced in Unv.

Also, you can see if/how much these changes suck in-game with bots. Then judge the changes (if you remember, many people were saying GPP changes are simply retarded just until they played the game).

[/dev/humancontroller]

Pre-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

After-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Wait... I am not poisoned! Now I can continue my attack on the alien base! Yay!
I got bitten again and now I AM poisoned! Balls!
Better run back to the medistation before the poison kills me!"

Pre-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health while camping in front of my base, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Better run back to camp at the medistation in the next room before the poison kills me!"

After-Medkit changes:
"Oh, I lost a good chunk of health while camping in front of my base, better use a medkit!
Oh balls, I got bitten by a dretch and now I am poisoned!
Wait... I am not poisoned! Now I can continue my attack on the alien base camping with maximum efficiency for a bit longer! Yay!
I got bitten again and now I AM poisoned! Balls!
Better run back to camp at the medistation in the next room before the poison kills me!"

Just for perspective, according to my sources, 1.1 gives you a 30 second poison immunity, GPP gives you none and Unvanquished gives you 2 seconds(as of alpha 1).

only 2? well, that doesn't completely lick my balls. my bullshit meter was notched at "RED ALERT !", thinking that poison immunity was programmed to last for 30 seconds, now the meter is just at "ALERT !".

I find the medkit change a help to newbies

...and a frustration to experienced players.
this is to be coupled with the fact that almost always, a person is a newbie for a short, initial period, but then becomes experienced and remains experienced for a long gaming lifetime.

There is no need to engage in high levels of balancing early on. It's quite possible to simply work on gameplay, ensuring that the game is fun to play

you're not doing anything in that regard.


let's continue by brainstorming ideas about dragoon/cataphract(TM) revamps. mine is:

chomping does relatively high damage, while pouncing does relatively low damage. pounce has a relatively high knockaway effect, while chomping has a slight pullback effect. furthermore, players can hold an inflicted chomp attack for a short time and the pull on the target during that time, while dealing a little more damage. essentially, an inflicted chomp attack works as a light, electronic magnet, which has a diminishing electricity feed based on the length of the held chomp, where the length is either short or long. both players suffer from magnetic attraction, based on the movement force yielded by both players, but a dragoon has a stronger movement force than a human in light armor (but not necessarily stronger than that of a human in a battlesuit).

then, on paper, dragoons would have the following properties:

short (non-held) chomp attacks would be the primitive, general-purpose attacks for dealing with humans while being alone. longer (held) chomp attacks would not deal so significant amount of damage, but would have the primary purpose of slowing down humans, to allow other alien players to attack the humans more easily, but also to pull humans off ledge edges.

pouncing humans would generally not be useful to deal damage, but

• to push humans into "danger zones", ie.,
  • map areas where humans receive environmental damage, such as burning pits (on applicable maps), or
  • kill zones, where the alien team has a locally increased ease to eliminate a human (such as an area with lots of static alien defences);
• as a tool to aid escaping or to delay enemy attacks, to push humans far away, possibly down to lower map levels; and
• of course, for locomotion (as an irrelevant side-effect).

a few interesting scenarios:

• a dragoon, flying at high speeds, chomp-grabs a human at his side, to pull the human in some direction, possibly after that human just evaded a planned pounce-push attack.
• a dragoon guards a plank-over-a-pit route to the alien base.
• a team of aliens mow down a human just outside the human base, while the dragoon hinders the human's ability to escape.
• a dragoon pulls a human, who is standing just outside the alien base, inside the base, allowing the alien defences to deal damage to the human.
• a dragoon pounces against a human downwards, causing the human to take falling damage as well.

this stupid forum sux @ parsing nested lists[/list][/list]

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

If anything, I find the medkit change a help to newbies. More experienced players know that when you are fighting against poisoning dretch, the worst thing you can do is to use medkit right after being poisoned, because you will most likely get poisoned again. New players don't know about that. They die more -> game is less fun for them. After all, it's JUST DAMN 2 SECONDS NOT FOREVER.

why is pouncespam a thing that needs to be changed?

Because I believe that, at the very least, pounce should be used "in parallel to" not "as replacement of" chomp. Just imagine if luci secondary shot had splash damage and dealt half as much dmg as the fully charged blast. That's basically what happened to goon.

In 1.1, chomp is far superior to pounce.
In GPP, pounce is superior to chomp.
In Unv, I'd like to see balance between these two.

As for your "neo-1.1" babbling. GPP introduced quite a lot changes. The fact that it's "newer" doesn't mean that it's "better" all the way. Many players far more skilled than you and me have complained about the issues that were fixed with the changes introduced in Unv.

Also, you can see if/how much these changes suck in-game with bots. Then judge the changes (if you remember, many people were saying GPP changes are simply retarded just until they played the game).

a few things.

skill != validity.

i HAVE tested your changes.  with real players.  on the official server.  they suck fucking ass.

wanna know why pounce is being used more than chomp?  because it is movement.  if chomp propelled me around at 1100 ups, i'd use it a hell of a lot more often.

chomp is not used as much because of the delay and human mobility.

as i have said several times in this thread.

you walk towards the human (cant pounce, you'll knock him out of range and you'll have to deal with that timer!) eating bullets, while the human sprints/ dodges away... shooting you.  most likely with a buddy.

so what am i going to do?  walk towards him chomping and hoping that unlagged will work in my favor and give me a 40 foot chomp range, or do i pounce him to death?


luci does not compare, it is s3, goon is s1.  how about we change the chaingun.  because people arent using it as intended or some shit.  the new chaingun will disable running for humans.  they can only walk.  furthermore, it fires 5 rounds a second, at 6 damage a round.

there

that's your dragoon-chaingun.  the chaingun nerfed like a dragoon.


wanna make the medkit more newbie friendly?  prevent popping one within two seconds of being poisoned.  there.  now you dont have to worry about stupid newbies using their medikits too soon and being poisoned.

or you can make a random tip of the day loading screen that fucking tells newbies to not pop their fucking medikits so soon and not fuck around with something that is only barely not broken as it is.

in closing, if players better than i applaud your idiotic changes, that is nice.  perhaps, unlike me, they will play your bullshit.  still, it is the most amazing thing that even though these awesome players like your changes, YOUR server is empty almost constantly, while us1 gpp is active 24 hours a day most days.

could it be that no one is really interested in playing your garbage because everything you've done so far, with the sole exception of getting tremulous to load in an updated engine, is complete and utter horseshit?

oh wait, it was those other guys who actually got it working in openwolf, huh?  bummer.  that means you guys have done really jack dick.


hold on, give me a few hours to make some random, pointless changes to tremulous.h, call it balance, and release.  i shall be the best developer.

snip

hey, actual concepts, refreshing.  i like the idea, though id actually reduce damage on the chomp, and lower the repeat more.  it would be especially awesome if you could latch on, then pounce, slingshotting the human away in an arc.

even without, that is a really neat idea.  adding onto it, it would be quite fun to use chomp as a point-blank grappling hook..... stay stuck to walls so long as you hold the bind.

Pounce currently in GPP is quite effective. Too effective. You pounce someone to corner, and you get frag without much effort, even battlesuit goes down when you pouncespam.
Yes, I see there is load of fun in that.

i'f i'm spending 3-4 evos for a goon, is it not unreasonable to expect kills?

furthermore, it is the biggest alien next to rant, why shouldent it be able to fight bsuits?

[Asvarox]

I find the medkit change a help to newbies

...and a frustration to experienced players.
this is to be coupled with the fact that almost always, a person is a newbie for a short, initial period, but then becomes experienced and remains experienced for a long gaming lifetime.

That is true, though I'd rather frustrate experienced players by making newbies a little bit harder to kill and, at the same time, making the game less frustrating for newbies by reducing the threat of dying a little, little bit (but still). I really doubt 2 second immunity will change current most-optimal tactic of using medkit to heal poison after fight. You will never be sure if you kill that dretch, and if you do... It still doesn't make much difference if you use the medkit 2 seconds later. Poison immunity would be a significant change if it was 5 or 10 seconds long.

As for you RAKninja-Decepticon - please, read my post again. Then your post. Repeat few times. Maybe you will then spot all those retarded bits you've written. I'm not going to point them out for you.

[Qrntz]

could it be that no one is really interested in playing your garbage because everything you've done so far, with the sole exception of getting tremulous to load in an updated engine, is complete and utter horseshit?

oh wait, it was those other guys who actually got it working in openwolf, huh?  bummer.  that means you guys have done really jack dick.


hold on, give me a few hours to make some random, pointless changes to tremulous.h, call it balance, and release.  i shall be the best developer.

troll harder ಠ_ಠ

[CorSair]

Pounce currently in GPP is quite effective. Too effective. You pounce someone to corner, and you get frag without much effort, even battlesuit goes down when you pouncespam.
Yes, I see there is load of fun in that.

i'f i'm spending 3-4 evos for a goon, is it not unreasonable to expect kills?

furthermore, it is the biggest alien next to rant, why shouldent it be able to fight bsuits?

Then I got suggestion:
How about making pounce primary then? If not, then you should develop something better. You know all the stuff, I bet you can make it waaayyyy better than others.

you walk towards the human (cant pounce, you'll knock him out of range and you'll have to deal with that timer!) eating bullets, while the human sprints/ dodges away... shooting you.  most likely with a buddy.

so what am i going to do?  walk towards him chomping and hoping that unlagged will work in my favor and give me a 40 foot chomp range, or do i pounce him to death?

If you can't utilize the every aspects of class/weapon, then you should either train to use it properly or not to use it at all.

After all, not my problem how you deal with them. Being tactical in FPS is not illegal, anyway.

[E-Mxp]

nerf pounce and trample, nerf turrets, and poison immunity is also from 1.1?

You apparently didn't have a problem with poison immunity in 1.1 in wich it lasted 30(!!) seconds. No mention, not even a quick search though the forums showed people raving on about how 30 seconds is ridiculous, I think no-one really noticed it was even there, why is it a problem now?

without immunity, it is possible for the poison to kill the human running back for another medkit.  without, you cannot, especially with infinisprint.

If you know a little bit about strave jumping, the sprint isn't really that much of a problem.

I do think they overdone it with the sprint though.


I'll rather see changes to the basilisk. It is good that the basi got a bigger role in the game, but I feel that the grab takes way too long. Talk about 2 seconds; if a naked human is grabbed by a basilisk it takes about 10 seconds before the basi is able to kill him. In that time the poor human can do fuck all. I often spend that time flailing my mouse around and meshing buttons hoping I can get away... but it's futile.
Now, having to wait 10 seconds before you die, with nothing you can do to stop it, now that grinds my gears.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

That is true, though I'd rather frustrate experienced players by making newbies a little bit harder to kill and, at the same time, making the game less frustrating for newbies by reducing the threat of dying a little, little bit (but still). I really doubt 2 second immunity will change current most-optimal tactic of using medkit to heal poison after fight. You will never be sure if you kill that dretch, and if you do... It still doesn't make much difference if you use the medkit 2 seconds later. Poison immunity would be a significant change if it was 5 or 10 seconds long.

As for you RAKninja-Decepticon - please, read my post again. Then your post. Repeat few times. Maybe you will then spot all those retarded bits you've written. I'm not going to point them out for you.

logic flaw.  you think newbies will only play human, and/or that human newbies are the only ones deserving of assistance.  what about the dretches you just nerfed with your bullshit poison immunity?

poison immunity, for ANY length of time is bullshit.  if it does not matter so much, remove it. 

sorry, reading your post and then mine only shows me the holes in your logic.  and that you refuse to answer the most glaring questions of all.

troll harder ಠ_ಠ

ok.

Then I got suggestion:
How about making pounce primary then? If not, then you should develop something better. You know all the stuff, I bet you can make it waaayyyy better than others.

If you can't utilize the every aspects of class/weapon, then you should either train to use it properly or not to use it at all.

After all, not my problem how you deal with them. Being tactical in FPS is not illegal, anyway.

sure.  you dont even need to do that, just make a bind that switches mouse 1 and 2 when you evo to goon.

also, the "you do better" argument is a strawman.  we are not talking about my hypothetical mods or my "skill" as a dev.  we are talking about unvanq and the bullshit that comprises it.  furthermore, i have better things to develop than some mod for a dying game that no one will play.


your closing statement is hilarious.  rather than address anything about the game, you again attack me and my abilities (or lack thereof) as a player.  you are so intent on doing this, you fail to notice your argument applies equally to pounce as it does chomp.

You apparently didn't have a problem with poison immunity in 1.1 in wich it lasted 30(!!) seconds. No mention, not even a quick search though the forums showed people raving on about how 30 seconds is ridiculous, I think no-one really noticed it was even there, why is it a problem now?

If you know a little bit about strave jumping, the sprint isn't really that much of a problem.

I do think they overdone it with the sprint though.


I'll rather see changes to the basilisk. It is good that the basi got a bigger role in the game, but I feel that the grab takes way too long. Talk about 2 seconds; if a naked human is grabbed by a basilisk it takes about 10 seconds before the basi is able to kill him. In that time the poor human can do fuck all. I often spend that time flailing my mouse around and meshing buttons hoping I can get away... but it's futile.
Now, having to wait 10 seconds before you die, with nothing you can do to stop it, now that grinds my gears.

i was not a forum member in 1.1, and other "balance" features drove me away.  gpp is much better, thank you.  were i here at that time, i'd have been raising holy hell about that poison immunity.


strafejump requires 2-3 jumps to get to a decent speed (unless you're good at circlejumping from a dead stop.... )  why dick with that when i can get 1100 ups AND a good chunk of damage from pounce?  you know, that move that is supposed to make up for my lack of wallwalk as a goon.

basi - ummmmmm.  wow.  really?

you're not kidding or being sarcastic?

a basi can kill a naked human in 2 swipes.  that is much less than 2 seconds, let alone 10.  if you are getting killed like this, it is either a bad basi, or an incredibly good one who is just showing off.

furthermore there are many "tricks" dealing with escaping basigrab.

and finally, what are you doing alone, so that a basi can get your back unopposed?

[E-Mxp]

strafejump requires 2-3 jumps to get to a decent speed (unless you're good at circlejumping from a dead stop.... )  why dick with that when i can get 1100 ups AND a good chunk of damage from pounce?  you know, that move that is supposed to make up for my lack of wallwalk as a goon.

True, but I was actually talking about the Dretch. Because when you are a dretch, stravejumping is more than helpful.

basi - ummmmmm.  wow.  really?

you're not kidding or being sarcastic?

a basi can kill a naked human in 2 swipes.  that is much less than 2 seconds, let alone 10.  if you are getting killed like this, it is either a bad basi, or an incredibly good one who is just showing off.

furthermore there are many "tricks" dealing with escaping basigrab.

and finally, what are you doing alone, so that a basi can get your back unopposed?

They are sneaky bastards them basilisks.

Yes, they can kill you in 2 swipes, but then the human can get away if he is lucky. Better to stab him in his pinky toe till he bleeds to death so they can get a sure kill.
I have no problems with a basi grabbing me and killing me in 2 seconds, not at all, but I hate being stabbed in the pinky toe and held there, for 10 full seconds, till I bleed out.
The problem is that the time the basilisk can hold a naked human is far too long, especially in consideration that a basi can kill a naked human within 2 seconds.
If you could just get away after 5 seconds a player (like me) could stand a chance. Ofcouse, a good basi could just as easily slip behind you and grab you again, but then I'm ok with that, because I at least had a chance.

Also, could you enlighten me on some of the ways to escape the basigrab then? I know of the jetpack one (though it never worked on me) and that crouching could release you(though it never worked on me, and I tried, believe me, I tried.)

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

strafejump requires 2-3 jumps to get to a decent speed (unless you're good at circlejumping from a dead stop.... )  why dick with that when i can get 1100 ups AND a good chunk of damage from pounce?  you know, that move that is supposed to make up for my lack of wallwalk as a goon.

True, but I was actually talking about the Dretch. Because when you are a dretch, stravejumping is more than helpful.

basi - ummmmmm.  wow.  really?

you're not kidding or being sarcastic?

a basi can kill a naked human in 2 swipes.  that is much less than 2 seconds, let alone 10.  if you are getting killed like this, it is either a bad basi, or an incredibly good one who is just showing off.

furthermore there are many "tricks" dealing with escaping basigrab.

and finally, what are you doing alone, so that a basi can get your back unopposed?

They are sneaky bastards them basilisks.

Yes, they can kill you in 2 swipes, but then the human can get away if he is lucky. Better to stab him in his pinky toe till he bleeds to death so they can get a sure kill.
I have no problems with a basi grabbing me and killing me in 2 seconds, not at all, but I hate being stabbed in the pinky toe and held there, for 10 full seconds, till I bleed out.
The problem is that the time the basilisk can hold a naked human is far too long, especially in consideration that a basi can kill a naked human within 2 seconds.
If you could just get away after 5 seconds a player (like me) could stand a chance. Ofcouse, a good basi could just as easily slip behind you and grab you again, but then I'm ok with that, because I at least had a chance.

Also, could you enlighten me on some of the ways to escape the basigrab then? I know of the jetpack one (though it never worked on me) and that crouching could release you(though it never worked on me, and I tried, believe me, I tried.)

you did not preface your statement to be about dretches.  we were talking about poison in general.  and mostly goons/pounce.

"bleeding out" is a dumb move in most situations.  mainly because you can never be sure that some other human is not about to turn the corner and kill you.

wanna know how to avoid basigrab?  use a shotty, jack up sensitivity, and jerk the mouse hard while firing at the apex of your turn.  the "safe spot" is exceedingly small, and you can usually at least force the basi to disengage with a few pellet hits, if you do not outright make a kill.  or get any other AoE type weapon and shoot the ground.  humans soak up human damage better than pre-mara aliens.

ducking works on basis that grab the head.  if they are grabbing the toes, jump/dodge more.  roll your face on the keyboard if you are grabbed, you need but a single frame of freedom to escape.  NEVER.  LEAVE.  THE.  BASE.  ALONE.  most basis cannot ambush two players and kill one.

[E-Mxp]

you did not preface your statement to be about dretches.  we were talking about poison in general.  and mostly goons/pounce.

Sorry for that. 

Ill be sure to try out some of those tips, thanks!

[jr2]

Why is everyone so frakking upset about changes?  Make a mod after release.  Call it whatever... like TremX and some of the other mods for Trem 1.1  Then you can have your cake and eat it too.  And if no one likes the official changes, then your mod will be played and the official release will just be there as a base for your mod.  I just solved everyone's problem.  You can pay me later. 

[/dev/humancontroller]

official

(TM)

[jr2]

wat?

Official meaning Unvanquished release; whatever.  At one point, I'm pretty sure there were almost as many people or more playing TremX instead of 1.1 :p

[/dev/humancontroller]

wat?

Official meaning Unvanquished release

wat?

"official" should have been replaced with:

• controlled by the tyrants dominating tremulous.net (or u***********.net), or
• OFFICIAL(TM), masking the definition just above.

explanation: the game (or that other game) is developed by the community for the community. it pisses me off, when someone, either due to delusion or due to greed for power, claims to have something blessed from within "the closed doors of a company".

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

...tremx...

I'm pretty sure there were almost as many people or more playing TremX instead of 1.1 :p

TremX is a 1.1 mod. Until a few years ago, where someone imported it into gpp but failed to get a mod server up dedicated for it.
I think you're talking about TremZ, by which their forums have almost lost hope. Go see for yourself, its pretty much dead silent.

[hwd]

TremX is a 1.1 mod. Until a few years ago, where someone imported it into gpp but failed to get a mod server up dedicated for it.
I think you're talking about TremZ, by which their forums have almost lost hope. Go see for yourself, its pretty much dead silent.

  I think he knows it's for 1.1 boyo...

TremX and some of the other mods for Trem 1.1 

And there was a sizable portion of people playing TremX, maybe not as much as jr2 makes out, but still significant.

[vcxzet]

Vaporware versus vaporware ... tremulous wins

[jr2]

explanation: the game (or that other game) is developed by the community for the community. it pisses me off, when someone, either due to delusion or due to greed for power, claims to have something blessed from within "the closed doors of a company".

I see.  Well, I always considered something released by a dev team (even if that team is one person) to be "official" -- basically, meaning the original release as intended by its author(s).  After that, you can get all sorts of modifications, but those are mods.  Unless you fork it.  Like, for example, Trem 1.2gpp > TremZ (not to be confused with 1.1's TremX) and Unvanquished.

And yeah, it kinda irked me that TremX didn't get a 1.2 ded running, as I think that may have breathed a tiny little bit of life into Trem... maybe a last dying gasp, but hey, enjoy what you can get while you can get it.


I keep wondering when whoever pays for the Trem forums server space gets bored and this site goes dead.   

[/dev/humancontroller]

I always considered something released by a dev team (even if that team is one person) to be "official" -- basically, meaning the original release as intended by its author(s).

that is self-contradictory, with my explanation in mind. if the development team consists of 1 person, then a release can be called "official". if the development team is larger, but is still closed, then a release can be called "official" in most cases. generally, the more centralized the team is, the more applicable the term "official" is.

in the Tremulous case, the development team is an often-changing set of individuals (whom you can call the authors), and they don't have a common intent towards releasing, so a release that is posted on this site (tremulous.net) is the sole decision of "the tyrants of tremulous.net & svn.icculus.org/tremulous", and such releases are generally against the intent of many of the team members, and thus, "official" is the least applicable term for such.

[Garion]

TremZ was supposed to be in honor to IabZ, I guess that's a pretty good reason to prefer TremZ .

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

TremZ was supposed to be in honor to IabZ, I guess that's a pretty good reason to prefer TremZ .

I'd say developer's motivation and updates > your reason * 5.
The reason is because you won't get much players with the phrase 'to be in honor to'. Without players, online games aren't fun.
Ever tried playing multiplayer online COD by yourself? Or something similar like lol?

[Mew]

I am not sure if I understand the nature of the thread, and I'm not naming any names; but I'm pretty sure you guys that are arguing completely derailed it. That's very annoying.
You probably are a huge portion of the truly active members, which is probably why you don't receive the banning for your continuing disruption, thread derailing and quote towers. So try not to abuse that please?
As for your arguing, you really should stop trying to argue the point in when the other party clearly doesn't understand you [doesn't want to understand you].

The question I ask myself now is, 'where do we go from here'?

Cron, are you asking us to give you input or is that just a rhetorical question?
and if so, your question is quite vague. So if you'd like to elaborate, I'm more than willing to reciprocate with an earnest answer.

So we heard unv's side, what's tremZ/Volt's side? Because Cron makes volt seem like a complete fucking asshole faggot. Which might not be the case.
Or, is this really the whole story and they are complete asshole faggots who decline to make a statement because they know they are in the wrong.
OR did cron just have first post which was unintentional by you whereas tremZ completely dropped the ball and didn't even write a thing here

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I am not sure if I understand the nature of the thread

this is the drama thread.  it is for arguing, bitching, namecalling.  you know, drama.

like this -

Currently Unv is almost same as GPP (couple of relatively minor changes: nerfed pounce and dodge, more stamina for humans, little boost to luci) with few new models and graphics improvements.

dodge was nerfed as a tradeoff for "infinisprint".  you can sprint almost forever with UNV's bullshit.  nerfed pounce was far from "relitivly minor" considering aliens got nerfed with almost every change introduced.  the rest of the changes were human buffs, like the totally unnecessary luci buff.

oh and the "new art" is fugly as hell.  and they STILL dont have alien choppers.

i find it amazing that you guys havent nerfed charge yet.


good job with the bots though, now just set it so that players are always human, and bots are always alien, and the game would almost be "balanced"






- see mew?  that's what this thread is for.

[Survivor]

I am not sure if I understand the nature of the thread, and I'm not naming any names; but I'm pretty sure you guys that are arguing completely derailed it. That's very annoying.
You probably are a huge portion of the truly active members, which is probably why you don't receive the banning for your continuing disruption, thread derailing and quote towers. So try not to abuse that please?
As for your arguing, you really should stop trying to argue the point in when the other party clearly doesn't understand you [doesn't want to understand you].

So we heard unv's side, what's tremZ/Volt's side? Because Cron makes volt seem like a complete fucking asshole faggot. Which might not be the case.
Or, is this really the whole story and they are complete asshole faggots who decline to make a statement because they know they are in the wrong.
OR did cron just have first post which was unintentional by you whereas tremZ completely dropped the ball and didn't even write a thing here

At the time of creation of this thread off-topic had turned into a ping-pong match between both parties, with insults sprayed here and there. I chose to focus it all in this thread so the rest of off-topic would get breathing space again. Not to resolve an issue.
I do not particularly care who 'wins' this, or if everyone gets an even chance. I cannot force one group to show up or the other to be less active.

As for not banning. The thread is not actually being derailed as it was expected that the drama would turn up here. The quote towers are their own problem as well in this thread as long as they don't make them solely for the purpose of making quote towers.

[CreatureofHell]

I am not sure if I understand the nature of the thread, and I'm not naming any names; but I'm pretty sure you guys that are arguing completely derailed it. That's very annoying.
You probably are a huge portion of the truly active members, which is probably why you don't receive the banning for your continuing disruption, thread derailing and quote towers. So try not to abuse that please?
As for your arguing, you really should stop trying to argue the point in when the other party clearly doesn't understand you [doesn't want to understand you].

So we heard unv's side, what's tremZ/Volt's side? Because Cron makes volt seem like a complete fucking asshole faggot. Which might not be the case.
Or, is this really the whole story and they are complete asshole faggots who decline to make a statement because they know they are in the wrong.
OR did cron just have first post which was unintentional by you whereas tremZ completely dropped the ball and didn't even write a thing here

The quote towers are their own problem as well in this thread as long as they don't make them solely for the purpose of making quote towers.

I concurr.

[LuckyCharms]

fuck argument, 1.1 is best get off my lawn.


come at me bro, i am fucking drunk.