the retarded mentality of some TremZ/Unvanquished enthusiasts

[danmal]

Check downloads versus number of players. There are way too much of the former compared with the number of the later. It's highly disproportionate. A lot of people probably just give-up. That's expected in most releases when too many things go wrong. They might not post in the Unvanquished forums, because they never cared enough. They just go, "Oh stupid pre-alpha game doesn't work, meh, I'll go and play something else". It's being normal. Don't expect everyone is going to be so enthused as you are.

This is a terrible metric. By the same logic most people can't get Tremulous working. Unvanquished is primarily advertised through either the unvanquished site or community Tremulous forums making it extremely likely that they have a forum account and care about the future of Tremulous. This is a very low barrier for reporting errors. If the majority of people truly are having difficulty running the game the forums should be receiving a substantial number of bug reports. This is not occurring.

[OhaiReapd]

This thread is sad. Pussies need to stop being pussies and deal with the fact that there are two new dev teams, and that fighting about who's right is like fighting over whether Tremulant or DevHC is a bigger troll.

[FisherP]

I think people need to investigate what the OSS or GPL really requires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open_source_vs._source-available

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License

Some people seem to think that OSS requires the source to be freely available and accessible while in development. This is incorrect. GPL code can be written completely in secrecy, however as soon as it's published the source code must be available.

The developers of TremZ are completely within their rights, rightly or wrongly, to limit access to the source code during the development phase to only the development team.

What we seem to have here is a difference in development philosophy. If you read the article from wikipedia above you'll see what I mean.

[/dev/humancontroller]

This thread is sad. Pussies need to stop being pussies and deal with the fact that there are two new dev teams, and that fighting about who's right is like fighting over whether Tremulant or DevHC is a bigger troll.

here's a list of useless trollposts.

[Tremulant]

I think people need to investigate what the OSS or GPL really requires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open_source_vs._source-available

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License

Some people seem to think that OSS requires the source to be freely available and accessible while in development. This is incorrect. GPL code can be written completely in secrecy, however as soon as it's published the source code must be available.

The developers of TremZ are completely within their rights, rightly or wrongly, to limit access to the source code during the development phase to only the development team.

What we seem to have here is a difference in development philosophy. If you read the article from wikipedia above you'll see what I mean.

Did i miss something? This doesn't seem overly relevant to the matter at hand.
What we have here has little to do with differing approaches to FOSS, rather, it is the remnants of a massive shitstorm that tore apart the tremz project, the majority of these fragments have coalesced to form unvanquished, in order to continue the work they started, the remaining scraps of shit, on the other hand, are pretending that they still have a dev team and attempting to smear/shout down/forcibly silence those who would like the truth to be known.

[Qrntz]

You miss the whole point —

the remaining scraps of shit

are utterly genius.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

You miss the whole point —

the remaining scraps of shit

are utterly genius.

The project head is Volt. He's young, ambitious, but very talented with HUD creation and C coding.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[FisherP]

Did i miss something? This doesn't seem overly relevant to the matter at hand.
What we have here has little to do with differing approaches to FOSS, ....

You must have missed something, some of the complaints that I've read within this thread is targeted at the tremz team closing off access to the OpenWolf development source. Which they are completely within their rights to do. Meanwhile, if unvanquished continue to work on a fork of OpenWolf they need to by rights send the patch to the OpenWolf development team when they release any binaries. It is this issue which I hear is causing some of the problems.

I agree with the open bazaar method of development, but the complaints of the unvanquished dev team are only cries of foul where there is no right. It's the same sort of cry as when a child cries out that he was promised a chocolate when his parents only said "We'll think about it". (please note, that I'm not in any way inferring at this point that anyone is a child or even behaving childish)

Regarding the numbers of bugs in the unvanquished alpha, um, that's what you would expect from an alpha, get over it. If it were a full release, and it had the sorts of bugs that have been reported, only then would you have a valid point.

I said it once, I'll say it again. People need to take a chill pill, and get some perspective.

[computerquip]

Did i miss something? This doesn't seem overly relevant to the matter at hand.
What we have here has little to do with differing approaches to FOSS, ....

You must have missed something, some of the complaints that I've read within this thread is targeted at the tremz team closing off access to the OpenWolf development source. Which they are completely within their rights to do. Meanwhile, if unvanquished continue to work on a fork of OpenWolf they need to by rights send the patch to the OpenWolf development team when they release any binaries. It is this issue which I hear is causing some of the problems.

I agree with the open bazaar method of development, but the complaints of the unvanquished dev team are only cries of foul where there is no right. It's the same sort of cry as when a child cries out that he was promised a chocolate when his parents only said "We'll think about it". (please note, that I'm not in any way inferring at this point that anyone is a child or even behaving childish)

Regarding the numbers of bugs in the unvanquished alpha, um, that's what you would expect from an alpha, get over it. If it were a full release, and it had the sorts of bugs that have been reported, only then would you have a valid point.

I said it once, I'll say it again. People need to take a chill pill, and get some perspective.

While this is legal, it's rude towards those who contributed into that codebase and disrespects the idea of FOSS in general.

Even more so, please note that TremZ is using the commits and assets from Unvanquished while TremZ doesn't care to give in return in a normal fashion. Over a majority of the Unvanquished team is fine with this. While TremZ will release the source in a tarball (and I'm unfortunately unsure about assets they generate, if any) form probably, it becomes difficult to cherry-pick what Unvanquished wants from the TremZ codebase like TremZ does from Unvanquished. Once again, TremZ closing their source in this fashion is just them being rude while Unvanquished is trying to be generous. To throw salt on the wounds, TremZ developers are often caught with their foot in their mouth talking trash about the assets and commits that will end up in their codebase.

Also, the assets they claim they're going to use do not have a license provided with them. This does not mean they can use them conventionally as they claim. Actually, if the author of the assets wished it, they could revoke TremZ's ability to use the assets at all at the author's discretion. However, everyone seems to be wanting to open the assets in a free and open manner for everyone to use.

Using the above, one can conclude that the only reason that TremZ is "opensource" is because they are required to be through the derived code they use. This is my main reason why I do not appreciate TremZ is because they are simply demoloshing the philosophy of the FOSS community. Unfortunately, this is become common as of late... see libav vs ffmpeg. However, I can respect that conflict more than this one because Volt doesn't seem to be making any logic at all by causing this entire fiasco and is going well out of his way to make himself look like a douche.

EDIT: I'm also starting to doubt SamOz's sanity.
EDIT2: Also, if Volt hates the community so much, why does he care if the alpha is bad quality or not? SamOz claims releasing the alpha (aka "rubbish") is "disservice to the public", the same public that Volt has insulted on various occasions.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Using the above, one can conclude that the only reason that TremZ is "opensource" is because they are required to be through the derived code they use.

you mean, cut-n-paste^TM?

[Tremulant]

if unvanquished continue to work on a fork of OpenWolf they need to by rights send the patch to the OpenWolf development team when they release any binaries. It is this issue which I hear is causing some of the problems.

While releasing source is a requirement under the GPL, that doesn't translate into unvanquished devs being required to contact the openwolf project and send them patches, It's up to the OpenWolf developers to retrieve those changes from whatever archive or repository the unvanquished devs use to host their sources.

So, i haven't been paying a great deal of attention, how is this causing the problems, is "the dushan" getting upset with unvanquished devs over their use of his project as a base?

You miss the whole point —

the remaining scraps of shit

are utterly genius.

Wow, i certainly did, remarkable stuff.

[computerquip]

Its not causing problems really. Unvanquished used commits from the TremZ repository and as a result, closed the source until redistribution to slow Unvanquished down, while TremZ can do whatever they want with Unvanquished source during private development. They're trying to set Unvanquished into the pace of TremZ which probably won't happen as they planned.

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

I commented this on tremz but the comment got removed... *those bastards*

[Cynthioner]

I think now get a comprehensive strategy, a lot of people who have deceived the most vocal and you begin to see positive reasonable comparisons, GJ SamOz and Herm. roll Eyes