Gameplay Preview Phase 7 Results

[Haraldx]

an idea, I think the gameplay will not change much

some spread fo lgun(more for realism, not much spread, very small spread, i hate the perfect aim XD) and mdriver, and some spread for prifle(more like rifle)
.

and change the lucis secondary fire, because its is much like MD i think, maybe, less fireinterval(like 1.1 lucis secundary), damage and small spread, has a similar speed of 1.1 prifle bullets.

random idea, maybe, this idea could be tested on oficial servers.

Realism??? How can a laser have spread? Do you even know what is a laser? For dev's sake, stop suggesting...

[Qrntz]

Realism??? How can a laser have spread?

We need to specially devise a laserdiode-shaking device because REALISM.

For dev's sake, stop suggesting...

also lol.

[wolfbr]

an idea, I think the gameplay will not change much

some spread fo lgun(more for realism, not much spread, very small spread, i hate the perfect aim XD) and mdriver, and some spread for prifle(more like rifle)
.

and change the lucis secondary fire, because its is much like MD i think, maybe, less fireinterval(like 1.1 lucis secundary), damage and small spread, has a similar speed of 1.1 prifle bullets.

random idea, maybe, this idea could be tested on oficial servers.

Realism??? How can a laser have spread? Do you even know what is a laser? For dev's sake, stop suggesting...

lasers? i see, pulse rifles, flames, electric guns, not laser : D- yes, firearms in real life dont have much spread,(ok, shotguns and others exceptions)nobody is accurate like terminator, spread have you ; ).  Simply put, no one has 100% aim.

and Haraldx, you love me? I know you love me, was the first sight you fell in love...for me, yes? ; )

[Pazuzu]

lasers? i see, pulse rifles, flames, electric guns, not laser : D- yes, firearms in real life dont have much spread,(ok, shotguns and others exceptions)nobody is accurate like terminator, spread have you ; ).  Simply put, no one has 100% aim.

And nobody DOES have "100% aim". Do you see anyone, even with a mass driver/lasgun, that consistently, 100% of the time, ALWAYS lands every single shot they fire? No! Everyone's aim is imperfect anyway! We're human, we're all imperfect.
But really, if the lasgun and MD don't shoot some kind of laser, what do they shoot, and why would it be inaccurate?

[David]

As I recall MD is a coil or rail gun, and fires very small particles at insanely high speed.
I think the las gun is a laser.

[Pazuzu]

As I recall MD is a coil or rail gun, and fires very small particles at insanely high speed.

Sounds about right. That would fire pretty accurately, though, right?

[Plague Bringer]

The argument here is that "IRL no one has 100% aim. This is NOT because of their weapon, but because of their skill. THEREFORE, to emulate real life, in Tremulous the WEAPON should hinder a player's aim, not their skill." Also, refer to my earlier post about the process by which the MD would have to be rebalanced, and please tell us WHY you would like this change. "REALISM" is NOT a valid reason.

[Pazuzu]

The argument here is that "IRL no one has 100% aim. This is NOT because of their weapon, but because of their skill. THEREFORE, to emulate real life, in Tremulous the WEAPON should hinder a player's aim, not their skill." Also, refer to my earlier post about the process by which the MD would have to be rebalanced, and please tell us WHY you would like this change. "REALISM" is NOT a valid reason.

I'm fine with the status quo. I thought that was clear.

[wolfbr]

The argument here is that "IRL no one has 100% aim. This is NOT because of their weapon, but because of their skill. THEREFORE, to emulate real life, in Tremulous the WEAPON should hinder a player's aim, not their skill." Also, refer to my earlier post about the process by which the MD would have to be rebalanced, and please tell us WHY you would like this change. "REALISM" is NOT a valid reason.

fun over realistm, but, realist is a valid reason. i dont like to see humans usin kameramera or aliens with heavy machine guns.

i dont want a insane spread for lgun or md, only, a small spread(less at rifle), something like wolfet weapons(mp40,Thompson or Sten) or counter strike's aug/sg552 secundary fire, not make much difference in gameplay, and even if you do, will be negligible because the aliens are weaker (compared to 1.1).

same spread for prifle, because this gun is easy to use, and do not have many cons points compared to the benefits(good damage,lose/long rage,perfect aim, bullet speed is fine,good ROF, ammo clip+Bpack..), the spread can make it more like a smg, not a improved rifle/lgun.

[Haraldx]

lasgun stands for laser... lasers also don't have any recoil - a laser is a frickin' light insanely forced in 1 point. And shotguns don't have much spread! Not even near the one you see in Tremulous! For fucks sake get a life finally! What's the use of making a gun have lower spread than a rifle if the rifle always hit it's target if aimed correctly? A gun in-game doesn't have to simulate people lack of skill, as stated earlier by Plague Bringer. Eh... I'm exhausted... can someone just ban him or something?

[CorSair]

fun over realistm, but, realist is a valid reason. i dont like to see humans usin kameramera or aliens with heavy machine guns.

i dont want a insane spread for lgun or md, only, a small spread(less at rifle), something like wolfet weapons(mp40,Thompson or Sten) or counter strike's aug/sg552 secundary fire, not make much difference in gameplay, and even if you do, will be negligible because the aliens are weaker (compared to 1.1).

same spread for prifle, because this gun is easy to use, and do not have many cons points compared to the benefits(good damage,lose/long rage,perfect aim, bullet speed is fine,good ROF, ammo clip+Bpack..), the spread can make it more like a smg, not a improved rifle/lgun.

... This is Tremulous... Not Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory neither Counter Strike... For God's sake man...
No one doesn't got totally perfect aim, even if gun has 0 percent chance to miss. Even I keep missing shots fairly often with mass driver or laser gun.

[wolfbr]

lasgun stands for laser... lasers also don't have any recoil - a laser is a frickin' light insanely forced in 1 point. And shotguns don't have much spread! Not even near the one you see in Tremulous! For fucks sake get a life finally! What's the use of making a gun have lower spread than a rifle if the rifle always hit it's target if aimed correctly? A gun in-game doesn't have to simulate people lack of skill, as stated earlier by Plague Bringer. Eh... I'm exhausted... can someone just ban him or something?

hey guy, relax,this guy need a hug.
as I said, the weapon can be accurate, but you're not, you can not aim with 100% accuracy, the very small spread do not affect the gameplay much, so add a touch of realism ; )

ok guy, peferct aim for all guns(chaingun and rifle).

fun over realistm, but, realist is a valid reason. i dont like to see humans usin kameramera or aliens with heavy machine guns.

i dont want a insane spread for lgun or md, only, a small spread(less at rifle), something like wolfet weapons(mp40,Thompson or Sten) or counter strike's aug/sg552 secundary fire, not make much difference in gameplay, and even if you do, will be negligible because the aliens are weaker (compared to 1.1).

same spread for prifle, because this gun is easy to use, and do not have many cons points compared to the benefits(good damage,lose/long rage,perfect aim, bullet speed is fine,good ROF, ammo clip+Bpack..), the spread can make it more like a smg, not a improved rifle/lgun.

... This is Tremulous... Not Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory neither Counter Strike... For God's sake man...
No one doesn't got totally perfect aim, even if gun has 0 percent chance to miss. Even I keep missing shots fairly often with mass driver or laser gun.

A gun in-game doesn't have to simulate people lack of skill

I know this is tremulous and not other games, I'm just giving an idea of ​​what would be the spread of weapons, but some people think I want to transform tremulous in counter strike or other game.

like sten spread(see it, long range spread)
http://enemyterritorytips.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/mp40_vs_thomson_spread.jpg
stean spread are peferct for lgun, and some less for md

[Plague Bringer]

Ask yourself "what is the benefit?" How is this more fun for humans? Artificial difficulty (in this case, spread) is not a good gameplay mechanic. Implementing spread purely on the basis of "realism" in a game like Tremulous is absurd because Tremulous does not aspire to be realistic. If you could give examples of how this would be more fun, and not frustrating (MDs are hard to use. Making people miss shots for no reason is frustrating.) then your idea would likely be considered (at least, by the community).

[Meisseli]

Now could someone explain to me how it would make the game more realistic if a laser weapon had spread?

[Haraldx]

hey guy, relax,this guy need a hug.

I need you dead or banned from TrueCombat and Tremulous forums...

as I said, the weapon can be accurate, but you're not, you can not aim with 100% accuracy, the very small spread do not affect the gameplay much

A gun in-game doesn't have to simulate people lack of skill

You just owned yourself...

, so add a touch of realism ; )

I'm telling you for the 3rd (if not more) fuckin' time that lasers don't have spread!!!


You don't understand 1 thing... in video games, lack of skill with guns in real life is the same as in video games - in real life you have problems with holding the gun steady, while in video games you just have problems with moving the mouse quickly enough or stuff like that.

[Qrntz]

This argument is pointless. The guns are accurate _because_ they are meant to be realistic. A railgun has noticeable spread? A laser does? Good job redefining modern-day physics.
That's like saying the lasgun should have non-hitscan projectiles for great realism.

long rage

also lol

[Plague Bringer]

hey guy, relax,this guy need a hug.

I need you dead or banned from TrueCombat and Tremulous forums...

as I said, the weapon can be accurate, but you're not, you can not aim with 100% accuracy, the very small spread do not affect the gameplay much

A gun in-game doesn't have to simulate people lack of skill

You just owned yourself...

, so add a touch of realism ; )

I'm telling you for the 3rd (if not more) fuckin' time that lasers don't have spread!!!


You don't understand 1 thing... in video games, lack of skill with guns in real life is the same as in video games - in real life you have problems with holding the gun steady, while in video games you just have problems with moving the mouse quickly enough or stuff like that.

TC forums have been dead for a while and CQB is dying.

[wolfbr]

Ask yourself "what is the benefit?" How is this more fun for humans? Artificial difficulty (in this case, spread) is not a good gameplay mechanic. Implementing spread purely on the basis of "realism" in a game like Tremulous is absurd because Tremulous does not aspire to be realistic. If you could give examples of how this would be more fun, and not frustrating (MDs are hard to use. Making people miss shots for no reason is frustrating.) then your idea would likely be considered (at least, by the community).

MD would not spread much, it would be nearly meaningless(very very small spread, would be to remove the perfect aim), you hardly missing a shot because of the spread, perhaps in very large maps(not in oficial maps like acts).

about gameplay, spread help in balance, prevent some camping, or, help to kill small aliens in close range(yes, in close range some spread help), prifle + rifle spread = perfect for close range.

some weapons of 1.2 has no much negative points, some details like reload or spread can help to balance these weapons, taking into account that aliens are weaker in 1.2(compared to 1.1. aliens).

like rapid reload for lgun(like 1,5 or 2 seconds) every 25 shots, lgun would have a bit of spread and damage(maybe, +1), the gun would be more realistic at the same time that would give aliens time to attack. (of course, lgun could be a bit cheaper, like 200 credits). and fast reload for blaster(every 8 shots, 1 second)

and about laser cant have spread..., see the weapons anims, the guns have some recoil, while his aim remains perfect, realism?

TC forums have been dead for a while and CQB is dying.

but, some players still playing tce(even the game being very buggy, still very fun), the problem of cqb is the 1 map to play(beta), but ok, in next version he had been open for mods and maps, tremulous survived until today because of the players, maps and mods : )

[A Spork]

Spread is NOT REALISTIC FOR MD OR LASGUN


Seriously, lasers SHOOT IN A STRAIGHT LINE
and md shoots fast enough shots they go straight too.


Are you getting it yet?

[Meisseli]

Did you know lasgun has no reload on purpose, which is countered by it's low damage per second - which makes the weapon unique?

Quite frankly, your ideas suck.

[Pazuzu]

I think you're all posting in a troll thread.

and about laser cant have spread..., see the weapons anims, the guns have some recoil, while his aim remains perfect, realism?

Assuming you're not a troll for a second, you fail physics forever. Let me explain:
Recoil is force.
Force is mass times acceleration.
Lasers fire concentrated light particles.
Light particles have close to zero mass.
Thus, the recoil caused by them is close to zero.
If you're not trolling, and if you're going for realism, I think you need to stop learning physics from anime.

[wolfbr]

I think you're all posting in a troll thread.

and about laser cant have spread..., see the weapons anims, the guns have some recoil, while his aim remains perfect, realism?

Assuming you're not a troll for a second, you fail physics forever. Let me explain:
Recoil is force.
Force is mass times acceleration.
Lasers fire concentrated light particles.
Light particles have close to zero mass.
Thus, the recoil caused by them is close to zero.
If you're not trolling, and if you're going for realism, I think you need to stop learning physics from anime.

there are "no lasers" in tremulous, I'm not talking about physically, I'm talking about fiction futuristic weapons, in "tremulous, weapons" the guns have recoil(see the prifle's fire animation, same thing for lgun), the same thing for the new models:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUeJ_f3V30
and, i not much fan of anime, but,i like gantz's manga and cowboy bebop : )

[Haraldx]

and about laser cant have spread..., see the weapons anims, the guns have some recoil, while his aim remains perfect, realism?

Lasers don't have recoil! Since it's Quake 3 engine, there is a firing animation 1 for every gun.

TC forums have been dead for a while and CQB is dying.

but, some players still playing tce(even the game being very buggy, still very fun), the problem of cqb is the 1 map to play(beta), but ok, in next version he had been open for mods and maps, tremulous survived until today because of the players, maps and mods : )

It's alpha not beta you moron. Fuck mods - what is the use of having an alpha test of a game if the official version is not tested anyway? The same use of you suggesting your dumbass suggestions. If Coroner will (and I hope he will) make the mod out of alpha and maybe even furter I can see True Combat flourishing once again.

[Pazuzu]

there are "no lasers" in tremulous, I'm not talking about physically, I'm talking about fiction futuristic weapons, in "tremulous, weapons" the guns have recoil(see the prifle's fire animation, same thing for lgun), the same thing for the new models:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUeJ_f3V30
and, i not much fan of anime, but,i like gantz's manga and cowboy bebop : )

You know what? I'm done. You're definitely a troll. Nobody's so stupid that they can't tell the difference between projectile and energy weapons.
I'm out. Everyone else should be too. There's just no point in arguing with a troll.

[Haraldx]

there are "no lasers" in tremulous, I'm not talking about physically, I'm talking about fiction futuristic weapons, in "tremulous, weapons" the guns have recoil(see the prifle's fire animation, same thing for lgun), the same thing for the new models:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HUeJ_f3V30
and, i not much fan of anime, but,i like gantz's manga and cowboy bebop : )

You know what? I'm done. You're definitely a troll. Nobody's so stupid that they can't tell the difference between projectile and energy weapons.
I'm out. Everyone else should be too. There's just no point in arguing with a troll.

Yeah, I'm out too, he wants to make stuff realistic that he understands isn't realistic and the problem is found elsewhere.

[wolfbr]

the true laser like it,unlike tremulous weapons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwaMNab5pw

fear's laser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-7wmP9Aiqk

trem's guns is more like pulse rifles or eletric guns, not lasers.

about animation, I believe it is possible to use different animations for each weapon, an example is the reload animation in the new 1.2 models

Actually, I believe that the small spread for lgun  and prifle help in gamebalance, rather than their mess.

laser or not, nobody can hold a gun like a robot, and have surgical precision.

[Pazuzu]

the true laser like it,unlike tremulous weapons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwaMNab5pw
fear's laser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-7wmP9Aiqk

A "James Bond laser" and a weapon from a video game.
Bye now.

[wolfbr]

tremulous are a game, no?

i give to you 2 videos, one real and other from a game, duh, see the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SFilo7To0Q

I think some guys are watching too much starwars

[Plague Bringer]

wolfbr, you are neglecting to give reasons why this will improve balance. You are talking out of your ass. "REALISM" by itself is NOT a valid reason to implement a feature like this in Tremulous, or any game that does not attempt to emulate real life. Give us more reasons. "Gameplay" is not a reason. "Gameplay because..." IS. "It is the future" is NOT a valid argument for why Tremulous is realistic. Tremulous is NOT realistic, and (like I've said two or three times) trying to argue for a change purely on the basis of realism will get you nowhere. WHY will recoil benefit gameplay or balance? I've told you that making players miss shots for absolutely no reason with the MD will only frustrate players, leading to many changes to allow misses to effect the MD less, and completely changing how the weapon works. You did not argue against that. You did not give any reasons for why the lasgun should be more inaccurate. Is it too accurate? Is Tremulous imbalanced because of it? Is it OP? I doubt all of these things.

[kharnov]

wolfbr, you are neglecting to give reasons why this will improve balance.

Alternative diagnoses:

• He is a moron.
• He is attempting to troll.