A Blast from the Past!

[Orc]

Hey there, some of you might remember me, tho after so long I would be surprised if its more than a few. Once upon a time I was considered a decent player at trem, and upon sorting out some old bookmarks today, I was inspired to drop by and see what's up with the game these days. Do the powers that be still point to wide sweeping statistics to justify obscene imbalances? or have the last couple years smoothed out the rough edges? (I still remember when you could dragoon chomp in mid pounce).

Also if somebody could leave some instructions as to installing the newest version and whatever special executables or scripts are required for optimum play, it would be much appreciated, and you might even see me drop by a random server or two! (In the meantime, don't forget, the luci is by far the BEST weapon for shooting at marauders atop the reactor!)

[Tremulant]

I have no idea who you are, for help installing the newest version just go to tremulous.net/files and read, if you want additional assistance you'll have to tell us a little more, what's your OS?

[CreatureofHell]

How many years ago?

EDIT: Question answered due to helpful replies. (It's possible here, surprisingly...)

[Ryanw4390]

I remember Orc from like 2006 lol. Welcome back

[Dracone]

Much as a lot of people kinda hoped for you to come back, this game is toast now. Worth playing some public games here and there, though 1.2 is nothing like 1.1 in terms of hopping in and raping unless you get some golden opportunities.

As far as I'd be able to tell, though I don't know much about the whole AKKA and {SGA} experience from back in those days, just about every big name you'd know from back then is gone. Not a single original {SGA} member is still around I think, but I don't know the complete original roster.

So basically it's an alright game still to go on for a public game every now and then, at least in 1.2 GPP.

As for instructions, install 1.1 like you normally would since it's the same client as it has been for years, but throw the GPP executable into the Tremulous folder and play through that for the most current stuff.

[NotYarou]

Hey Mikal
The game's dead, sorry

[Meisseli]

Much as a lot of people kinda hoped for you to come back, this game is toast now. Worth playing some public games here and there, though 1.2 is nothing like 1.1 in terms of hopping in and raping unless you get some golden opportunities.

As far as I'd be able to tell, though I don't know much about the whole AKKA and {SGA} experience from back in those days, just about every big name you'd know from back then is gone. Not a single original {SGA} member is still around I think, but I don't know the complete original roster.

So basically it's an alright game still to go on for a public game every now and then, at least in 1.2 GPP.

As for instructions, install 1.1 like you normally would since it's the same client as it has been for years, but throw the GPP executable into the Tremulous folder and play through that for the most current stuff.

1.2 is a nice game for a few public games just like you said, but scrimming in 1.2 is plain awesome. Way more fun than the 1.1 camping with the added bonus of building having an actual meaning in the games. Most scrims can be ended pre-S3 with both teams now, too.

Maybe it would be time for some old (American?) players to form a new clan to try and dominate 1.2? The current clans aren't just up for the job plus there's an opponent willing to scrim always, whenever possible: ddos.

[Lakitu7]

Hi. I liked to watch you play when I was a little nublet and it was part of why I stuck around. It'd be cool to see you playing again.

[A Spork]

Yeah....we need more good clans....

[KillerWhale]

I sat here for a good while trying to think of something clever, but all I've come up with is "Holy shit it's actually Orc this time."

[Norfenstein]

Do the powers that be still point to wide sweeping statistics to justify obscene imbalances? or have the last couple years smoothed out the rough edges? (I still remember when you could dragoon chomp in mid pounce).

Orc! Hello! Check out this thread to see the 1.1 -> 1.2 changes. Reading through some of your old posts it looks like you should be pleased with some of the changes (tyrant nerfs, regen nerfs, luci less spammy, local build points for repeaters). I don't remember where we were at when you left, but I'm pretty much the power that is when it comes to gameplay now, and I do feel like the edges have smoothed out well enough. The wide sweeping statistics more-or-less agree. Gameplay has stabilized to the point where I don't want to make any more changes before 1.2 is properly released.

1.2 is a nice game for a few public games just like you said, but scrimming in 1.2 is plain awesome. Way more fun than the 1.1 camping with the added bonus of building having an actual meaning in the games. Most scrims can be ended pre-S3 with both teams now, too.

I wasn't aware that there had been any organized games in 1.2 yet. Are there any demos available anywhere? I'm relieved to hear that the balance still works at a higher level than public games.

[Tremulant]

I believe at least two of our members autorecord every game.

[F50]

GT (whatever that was) scrimmed sg (now dead) several times, as well as ddos. There were other matches GT vs MAD, >< vs ddos (a long time ago), sg + ddos vs GT (someone really should post the demo of that somewhere, it was epic). I'm not sure how much scrimming NN, pk, and DSPro have done, but the other active clans have done a fair bit in the past year or so. Also there was the trem open, but that was essentially a scheduled PUG. So there has been quite a few.

In fact, it is very possible that meisseli has garnered his view on dretch strength almost completely just from scrims, as newer players really negate the necessity of serious dretching. That said, I'm not sure when the last time messeli has *lost* a scrim as aliens was. ddos is insane with maras.

My one comment on scrims in 1.2 is that if both teams manage to reach s3, SD can still define the game, at least with relatively few players (up to 4 vs 4) and balanced teams, when camping is still fairly effective.

[theKidbullet]

If orc's coming back tremulous is far from dead!

[Saliva]

I wasn't aware that there had been any organized games in 1.2 yet. Are there any demos available anywhere? I'm relieved to hear that the balance still works at a higher level than public games.

The balance favors humans if they are sufficiently skilled. If they are skilled enough aliens never get any kills because dretches die to machineguns so easily. If the humans aren't quite skilled enough aliens can get some evos and their chances increase dramatically. If the scrim is between nonskilled players aliens have the advantage because they have a greater chance to win 1 vs 1 fights with the more powerful classes. This is how it was in 1.1 and still is in 1.2 too.

The difference between 1.1 and 1.2 is that the stronger classes are more powerful in addition to being easier to use. If aliens can get past the beginning they have a greater chance to win. It's also very nice that aliens don't need s3 to attack a base so the game progresses faster.

I don't like that the balance is based on skill. Balance should remain as constant as possible no matter the skill level of the players. So I would say that the balance definitely doesn't work.

[khalsa]

Sup dude, long time. Let's do some MD vs. dretch training again sometime.

[Meisseli]

1.2 is a nice game for a few public games just like you said, but scrimming in 1.2 is plain awesome. Way more fun than the 1.1 camping with the added bonus of building having an actual meaning in the games. Most scrims can be ended pre-S3 with both teams now, too.

I wasn't aware that there had been any organized games in 1.2 yet. Are there any demos available anywhere? I'm relieved to hear that the balance still works at a higher level than public games.

I'm not sure about balance since we've won every round we ever played in 1.2 GPP but at least it is really fun, building and forward building really makes a difference and S2 alien rushing works. Seems fine for me, 1.2 has got a lot more strategy to offer than 1.1. I'm not sure about the dretch balance for example as I don't feel we've met our match yet.

I have indeed some demos but I've deleted many as my Windows partition has been constantly getting pretty full for a long time. Of the eight games that we've played in 1.2 (the most recent ones in http://ddos-tremulous.eu/cw) I've got the Xenocide, Increment and the most recent Dretch*Storm Pro (2vs2) and Player Killers matches recorded though, so 18 rounds in total, if you'd like them.

GT (whatever that was) scrimmed sg (now dead) several times, as well as ddos. There were other matches GT vs MAD, >< vs ddos (a long time ago), sg + ddos vs GT (someone really should post the demo of that somewhere, it was epic). I'm not sure how much scrimming NN, pk, and DSPro have done, but the other active clans have done a fair bit in the past year or so. Also there was the trem open, but that was essentially a scheduled PUG. So there has been quite a few.

In fact, it is very possible that meisseli has garnered his view on dretch strength almost completely just from scrims, as newer players really negate the necessity of serious dretching. That said, I'm not sure when the last time messeli has *lost* a scrim as aliens was. ddos is insane with maras.

My one comment on scrims in 1.2 is that if both teams manage to reach s3, SD can still define the game, at least with relatively few players (up to 4 vs 4) and balanced teams, when camping is still fairly effective.

No, just the opposite. I've got my view on the dretch strength exclusively from public games where I feel dretching is a pain and is a constant annoyance. Any semi-decent rifle can kill a mass of awesome dretchs with no trouble which I really don't approve of nor like the balance. At least in scrims there's a constant dretch storm. What Saliva said in this matter is true.

[Cadynum]

It's come to a point where not very much valuable info can be extracted from clanwars.
There are almost no clans left, the few remaining haven't had the opportunity to get any kind of teamplay since they have nobody to scrim and practice against.

Maybe if 1.2 gets released, receives a lot of publicity and new players there could be hope for the clan scene.
Right now there are one or on a good day perhaps two servers with players playing tremulous.*
No wonder no clans come out of that.

* Unlimited servers and similar not to be confused with tremulous.

[Dracone]

Base defense is, and always has been, more important for humans than aliens, due to the aliens' speed. However, short runs could be made by humans in 1.1 with a full team offense without too much worry, so it was even at a minimum 4v4. Now that's not really possible, as structures getting killed holds a huge impact compared to 1.1's, and the aliens can also kill the human base much faster if it's left undefended.

With that said, a 4v4 means the aliens can easily outnumber the maximum 3 man offense the humans can send out. I'd say that anything under 5v5 is alien biased in an even skill situation, though the skill often is NOT even. Of course there's still the matter of dretches being easily taken out, but that's been the case in Trem since players started getting good enough with rifle to simply be better than any dretch no matter how good he is, but one experienced naked rifle is much more efficient vs. dretches in 1.2 than in 1.1, the reason being because dretches have no impacting improvements in 1.2 whatsoever, while they were given the disadvantage of being easier to dodge and easier to spot and track.

Overall, this game will not have a reasonable clan scene unless 8-10 clans pop up with enough active players to create 5v5 scrims often.

[Meisseli]

Base defense is, and always has been, more important for humans than aliens, due to the aliens' speed. However, short runs could be made by humans in 1.1 with a full team offense without too much worry, so it was even at a minimum 4v4. Now that's not really possible, as structures getting killed holds a huge impact compared to 1.1's, and the aliens can also kill the human base much faster if it's left undefended.

With that said, a 4v4 means the aliens can easily outnumber the maximum 3 man offense the humans can send out. I'd say that anything under 5v5 is alien biased in an even skill situation, though the skill often is NOT even. Of course there's still the matter of dretches being easily taken out, but that's been the case in Trem since players started getting good enough with rifle to simply be better than any dretch no matter how good he is, but one experienced naked rifle is much more efficient vs. dretches in 1.2 than in 1.1, the reason being because dretches have no impacting improvements in 1.2 whatsoever, while they were given the disadvantage of being easier to dodge and easier to spot and track.

Overall, this game will not have a reasonable clan scene unless 8-10 clans pop up with enough active players to create 5v5 scrims often.

1/8 of the goal completed. Now go create them clans!

And no, you're completely wrong. Bases can be built exceptionally well in 1.2. If you don't know how to build, you will probably lose even easier than in 1.1. But truly well-standing bases can be made and bold moves so the base supports the offense extremely well and humans have a very short distance to the base.

@Norfenstein http://rapidshare.com/files/433158945/demos.zip.

[Lecavalier]

GT (whatever that was) scrimmed sg (now dead) several times, as well as ddos. There were other matches GT vs MAD, >< vs ddos (a long time ago), sg + ddos vs GT (someone really should post the demo of that somewhere, it was epic). I'm not sure how much scrimming NN, pk, and DSPro have done, but the other active clans have done a fair bit in the past year or so. Also there was the trem open, but that was essentially a scheduled PUG. So there has been quite a few.

In fact, it is very possible that meisseli has garnered his view on dretch strength almost completely just from scrims, as newer players really negate the necessity of serious dretching. That said, I'm not sure when the last time messeli has *lost* a scrim as aliens was. ddos is insane with maras.

My one comment on scrims in 1.2 is that if both teams manage to reach s3, SD can still define the game, at least with relatively few players (up to 4 vs 4) and balanced teams, when camping is still fairly effective.

Yup, even DSPro has been getting in on the scrims. I've been trying to get some of our newer members some scrimming experience. That is, if getting beat-up by .ddos counts as experience. 

From the few real 1.2 scrims I've been in, I find that matches can be won at any point of the game s1, s2, or s3 by either team. SD is often not required. I definately like 1.2 scrims better.

[A Spork]

I've always enjoyed a good scrim, and 1.2 makes them much more fun IMHO as camping is no longer needed.

Unfortunately, we don't have very man good, active clans....which makes me sad

[GregorTheEPIC]

Tremulous is only dead when people think it's dead and don't play.

[Lecavalier]

Tremulous is only dead when people think it's dead and don't play.

When people say: "Trem is dead", what they are really saying is: "Trem is dead to me". Which is sad

[StevenM]

its pretty dead, i mean, basically every thread turns into a debate on 1.2 vs. 1.1 other where or not this game is dead. the whole community was split right down the center and both versions suffered as a consequence. hence why devs should look to please the masses, not themselves. otherwise dont release the game to the public.

[Plague Bringer]

There are two masses to please: Us and them. The devs chose to please us because we support them. Makes sense. The forum, though, is a bit too inactive for my tastes. This is the Tremulous community and we're really fading out. We've still got a rather nice population in-game, but I've always been a forum lover. It's sad to see the (constructive) activity here die down. I miss Lava and vcxzet and Risujin and Paradox and KobraKaine and Kevlarman and Tuple and Basilisco and Survivor...

[amz181]

its pretty dead, i mean, basically every thread turns into a debate on 1.2 vs. 1.1 other where or not this game is dead. the whole community was split right down the center and both versions suffered as a consequence. hence why devs should look to please the masses, not themselves. otherwise dont release the game to the public.

qft.

Whatever your view on 1.2, its not worth killing the trem userbase for. Unfortunately, it seems the damage has already been done.

Maybe when(if) they release 1.2 the quitters will come back, and we'll see an influx of noobs. Then again, maybe not.

My moneys on the latter.