Stuff to make a HD tremulous

[rotacak]

gimhael: first goal should be just port tremulous to other engine without anything else. After that is possible trying to add vehicles etc I think that porting tremulous or even completely rewrite tremulous for new engine is one or two months work for good programer.

[Meisseli]

Geez, vehicles?

[rotacak]

If you want, I'll see if I can make some normal maps for ATCS textures. Then we can see how it would look with bump-mapping.

Make some then, I want to see it too

[CATAHA]

Apart from the development aspect I think a new engine at this time will split the already small community of Tremulous players again. Some think that after 1.2 is released all the 1.1 players/server will migrate to 1.2, but I'm not so sure. If you now add a new engine with new models/maps etc, this means that you will also have servers for the new maps and servers for the old maps and players need the right client for the right server.

Not only split, but expand too and attract new players. For expample many old trem players in russian community switching to Natural Selection 2, and its just because of outdated Trem engine. Im sure that while 1.1 master server is up there gonna be players in 1.1 (im one of them). Only exception - 1.2 mod for '1.1 gameplay copy', when it will come out we will switch to 1.2 (our clan still w8 for full 1.2 release to work on this mod). When we talking about new engine, we talking about total upgrade, not about fork in development, so no global split.

[Pazuzu]

The biggest issue is this.
Porting is a pain, and getting Trem to XReal is a hard thing to do for people who have a life and a job.
Take something that would need a total recode such as U3 and the chance of porting plummets to almost nothing.

moving to U3 could be wouldnt be that much more work then xreal because it easier to dev.
waht im saying is you could port the current maps and models to u3 and plug in the game play manually

How, exactly, is it "easier to dev"? Is there some sort of script to convert Trem maps to U3's format? IIRC, U3 was already ruled out anyway because of licensing issues (U3 is closed-source, Tremulous is GPL'd). XReal (along with Sauerbraten) is open-source, but you'd probably have to go through the same time-consuming processes no matter which engine you choose.

[rotacak]

Another fps test for U3:
1920x1080, view from reactor place
10 turrets = 165 fps
200 turrets = 70 fps
Lowest fps from middle of room = 33 fps
One turret = 508 tris, 473 verts.

Computer: AMD Athlon II X3 440, geforce gtx 460 768 MB

[swamp-cecil]

what am i seeing, rotacak?

[Pazuzu]

Are you sure you're using the exact same settings for U3Trem and ioTrem (you said something about blur earlier)? Because I don't remember Tremulous having models of enormous toads with bombs stuck in their asses.

[Tremulant]

I don't remember Tremulous having models of enormous toads with bombs stuck in their asses.

Oh come now, there's bound to be a mod for that.

[CreatureofHell]

Are you sure you're using the exact same settings for U3Trem and ioTrem (you said something about blur earlier)? Because I don't remember Tremulous having models of enormous toads with bombs stuck in their asses.

It's the updated 1.2 model silly.

[Tremulant]

It's the updated 1.2 model silly.

When did trem get a model silly?

[rotacak]

what am i seeing, rotacak?

You see 200 "turrets" inside base.

Pazuzu: exact settings? Dunno, similar. There are very much options that arent in Q3. That turrets are also physics objects, they can fall, rotate and everyone casting shadows. I turned off blur, but seems like it have no impact in this engine or only about 5 fps in empty map (there is also more types of blur and many options). And that is not toads but guns from top of one vehicle. I don't know how many turrets can fit into base in tremulous, but hardly 200, because these are smaller and even that you almost cant walk in/out base.

[CreatureofHell]

It's the updated 1.2 model silly.

When did trem get a model silly?

When rotacak got ahold of it.

[Repatition]

It's the updated 1.2 model silly.

When did trem get a model silly?

When rotacak got ahold of it.

or when the devs let the players develop

[harraps]

I think if we make a tremulous with Xreal engine, it will be the same game but with new graphic.
But if we make a trem with UDK, we should try to make something different.
For example: vehicles, opened area, new aliens, and so much more that we are able to do with Unreal Engine 3.
Currently I'm writing something like a big list of all the stuff to a game project I called " Tremulous Reload" for U3.
Maybe it will be done, maybe not, but I'm sure the idea I get is not bad.
Finally I will give you the stuff list when it will be complete.

[jm82792]

I think to keep it realistic since tremulous has a very good gameplay we should do XReal and ignore other engines that need a total rewrite.

[Pazuzu]

I think to keep it realistic since tremulous has a very good gameplay we should do XReal and ignore other engines that need a total rewrite.

Seconded. I keep bringing up Sauerbraten, but since there's no easy way to convert the maps (f**king octrees, how do they work?), it probably won't happen.

[jm82792]

Octrees sound totally ridiculous because we have a massive base of maps that can easily be converted to XReal.

[freezway]

I really ope you guys are talking about 1.3/2.0... not gunna happen in 1.2.

[Odin]

It can be done *right now*. People just lack the knowledge or will to do it.

The only thing really different about xreal compared to ioquake3 is that you're forced to use libs instead of the qvm system(it was ripped out).

[jm82792]

Well as I've stated I know a section of how to get it over but not much.
I am hoping to understand how along with a friend of mine whom has more Quake 3 knowledge than I do,
and he will hopefully be emailing the developer soon regarding this quest.
As I've stated before once it's over then the rest is hard to screw up.

[gimhael]

@rotacak: Tremulous can render lots of objects too, here are 80 fps with lots of teslas in transit (on AMD 5770):


The engine was running in SMP mode, so the renderer and cgame could work in parallel. In my experience it is the cgame that slows down the engine when there are lots of objects around.

Coincidally, switching to blaster improves the framerate a little bit:

[rotacak]

gimhael: that hp bars consuming lot of fps, I know that from R Funserver CZ. That is one reason why hp bars are turned of (on this server) when you placing buildable, othervise it is often choppy. What CPU you using?

[jm82792]

Porting should not be thought of as better FPS but good to great FPS with better engine capabilities (rendering etc)

[SlackerLinux]

UDK isnt open its only free(i saw a post a few pages back asking if its free and open) but it would make a good choice if you can live with the engine not being open source.  maybe if there's enough interest a team of players(no trem devs since they gotta get 1.2 out the door now hurry up) could knock up a playable demo in udk

EDIT: actually UDK is ut3 so it has no linux version so thats a no go back to xreal or maybe doom3

[jm82792]

Besides you'd have to rewrite the code for U3.
All you need for cloth is Bullet, if someone will go about integrating into XReal.
(I don't know how hard it is to get bullet into XReal)
I use bullet with Blender, softbodies work as cloth, jello, whatever.
Bullet does ridged bodies, plus some other features.
Plus Bullet is open source.

[Pazuzu]

Besides you'd have to rewrite the code for U3.
All you need for cloth is Bullet, if someone will go about integrating into XReal.
(I don't know how hard it is to get bullet into XReal)
I use bullet with Blender, softbodies work as cloth, jello, whatever.
Bullet does ridged bodies, plus some other features.
Plus Bullet is open source.

Soft bodies would be nice, but what would they do to the framerate? I'd imagine the vert count would skyrocket.

[Asvarox]

Do we really need clothes in trem in first place?

[Meisseli]

This has become quite a funny thread. Seven pages of speculation, "what if", daydreaming, totally unrealistic goals and needless pondering.

Hasn't anyone learned from the previous hundred threads? Doesn't anyone view this as really pointless since even thinking of it requires a) 1.2 to be released, and even then it is a highly unrealistic thing to really happen since there isn't any hint whatsoever of b) an actual team seriously committed to doing it.

Seriously, nothing else than poor screenshots with ATCS textures is going to happen out of this thread. At least you could stop rushing in prematurely, and wait for 1.2 to be released. Then there's an actual possibility to think what actually needs to be and could be changed for the next version and what tools there are to attain the goals. Thinking how stuff like vehicles would be so cool isn't really getting anywhere.

[rotacak]

This has become quite a funny thread. Seven pages of speculation, "what if", daydreaming, totally unrealistic goals and needless pondering.

Hasn't anyone learned from the previous hundred threads? Doesn't anyone view this as really pointless...

Like "flying alien" for example? There was many threads about flying alien and almost all was spammed by users like you with text "go code it" "never happen" etc.

I like this discussion, because it is about something and not pointless. When I started topic about U3 engine, it was spammed and moved to offtopic or some shit by DEVS.

So tell me, what we should discuss here instead of this?