The air we need: on forum trolls and moderator action

[Ingar]

In a final attempt to keep the forum breathable I've resorted to the indiscriminate erradication of junk threads.

- I stopped deleted messages, I delete threads now
- Trolls can get bans on sight, after a few posts it's usually pretty clear who's one
- Insulting the establishment (devs/forum / server admins) is usually a trolling attempt,  I'll treat those as such.
- Flamebaits get deleted, I don't see the point in locking junk threads, not even as an example.
- It is not the task of a forum admin to educate people on what approriate behaviour consists of, only to show them the consequences.

It makes me sad I have to resort to this, but I'm through wasting compassing and understading on people
who don't deserve it. I know this might sound like a rant, but this is the feeling that echoes through the community.
I try not to rant, I try to solve problems. The problem is forum trolls, and the above is my solution.

I love tremulous, I realy do. Sometimes it annoys me as much as any other game, but the fact remains
that after more than 4 years, I'm still playing it regularly. No other game has ever done that to me.
It can't be denied either that my semi-celebrity status has something to do with it: whenever I'm playing
and someone tells me Ingar I luv ur maps! I still get this warm fuzzy feeling that I did something right.

Trolls are cold and ugly and I want to keep Tremulous warm and fuzzy, like grangers.

Note:
I'll read any troll attempt in this thread as "Yes, I'm a Troll, please ban me", it will save me a lot of weeding.
If you disagree with me, you can politely state so, and we can have a discussion.

[UniqPhoeniX]

\o/ (I suppose these are not perm-bans for (semi-)long time members at first?)
Btw, your maps are great!

[SlackerLinux]

agreed there seems to be more and more of junk threads/trolling on here its good to hear the mods are going to crack down on some of it

and yep i agree with phoenix your maps are great

[Survivor]

Stuff

I'll go along with Ingar's rules to keep mod response the same, as much as I'm still here anyway. Although I suggest you rename the thread to make its content a bit clearer.

[Haraldx]

Way to go Ingar, at last someone actually tries to keep the community clean!

[amz181]

And so it begins.

[jm82792]

Ingar that's what most forums are, the forum will clean up drastically and you will save time by removing threads.
Let the lounge be the place for some of the stuff you debate about deleting.
That what the government should do more of for some things

[Pazuzu]

In a final attempt to keep the forum breathable I've resorted to the indiscriminate erradication of junk threads.

- I stopped deleted messages, I delete threads now
- Trolls can get bans on sight, after a few posts it's usually pretty clear who's one
- Insulting the establishment (devs/forum / server admins) is usually a trolling attempt,  I'll treat those as such.
- Flamebaits get deleted, I don't see the point in locking junk threads, not even as an example.
- It is not the task of a forum admin to educate people on what approriate behaviour consists of, only to show them the consequences.

It makes me sad I have to resort to this, but I'm through wasting compassing and understading on people
who don't deserve it. I know this might sound like a rant, but this is the feeling that echoes through the community.
I try not to rant, I try to solve problems. The problem is forum trolls, and the above is my solution.

I love tremulous, I realy do. Sometimes it annoys me as much as any other game, but the fact remains
that after more than 4 years, I'm still playing it regularly. No other game has ever done that to me.
It can't be denied either that my semi-celebrity status has something to do with it: whenever I'm playing
and someone tells me Ingar I luv ur maps! I still get this warm fuzzy feeling that I did something right.

Trolls are cold and ugly and I want to keep Tremulous warm and fuzzy, like grangers.

Note:
I'll read any troll attempt in this thread as "Yes, I'm a Troll, please ban me", it will save me a lot of weeding.
If you disagree with me, you can politely state so, and we can have a discussion.

+1
Trolling isn't going to get 1.2 out faster.

[Plague Bringer]

+1
Trolling isn't going to get 1.2 out faster.

Moot point. Won't do it slower, either.

Anyway, +0.5. Off Topic safe from your wrath or is it getting cleaned out?

[swamp-cecil]

I love tremulous, I realy do. Sometimes it annoys me as much as any other game, but the fact remains
that after more than 4 years, I'm still playing it regularly. No other game has ever done that to me.
It can't be denied either that my semi-celebrity status has something to do with it: whenever I'm playing
and someone tells me Ingar I luv ur maps!(Thats me ) I still get this warm fuzzy feeling that I did something right.

Trolls are cold and ugly and I want to keep Tremulous warm and fuzzy, like grangers. Best line ever

i agree. Lock and sticky?

[Demolution]

Thank you.

[swamp-cecil]

i know of a 1.2 troll. shall i mention him on this thread?

Off Topic: nice siggie, Demo

[your face]

And so it begins.

ONE MODERATOR TO RULE THE TROLLS, AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

<3 ingar

[Meisseli]

Ingar throwing away 4 years of hard work and turning this forum into a place with actual intelligent discussion?

Well I'll be damned.

[A Spork]

Woohoo!

This forum really really needs this.

Like badly.
Why was this never the de facto way of trem.net forums?

[Firstinaction]

"OH"  well in that case. Thanks for deleting my message I sent a month ago I think. But I said. (Let me reminisce the message)  "Can you put your map series complex on the official server. That map is worth playing. " And no-body plays that map. You said you spent 6 months on it. INGAR C-MON.   

[A Spork]

Umm what?
That has like nothing to do with the thread...
Also, I don't think ingar has anything to do with the operations of the official servers(other than having admin)

[CATAHA]

May be u mean Sirius complex?
Ye i know its offtopic, but just wanna help =)

[Demolution]

Woohoo!

This forum really really needs this.

Like badly.
Why was this never the de facto way of trem.net forums?

Because the mods don't wanna do it most times. Do YOU want to be in charge of cleaning everyone else's diarrhea?

[Kiwi]

Thank you for this Ingar.  A breath of fresh air is truly what this forum needs.  Although, I'd also like to say that perma-bans for minor trolls won't end well, in my humble opinion.

[A Spork]

Woohoo!

This forum really really needs this.

Like badly.
Why was this never the de facto way of trem.net forums?

Because the mods don't wanna do it most times. Do YOU want to be in charge of cleaning everyone else's diarrhea?

I'd gladly mod the forums, if they wanted me to.

[Survivor]

Woohoo!

This forum really really needs this.

Like badly.
Why was this never the de facto way of trem.net forums?

For a while it was. But, like mentioned by Kiwi, acting too harsh also scares members away. That's why although there are rules (who of the regular members has read them?), mods always have the final say.
The way the forums are now is a development or a slow drift over the past 2 to 3 years. We used to have a few really bad members, but nowadays many people have behaviour which is at least partly bad. Just look at the F.R.T.T.S.T.H.K.T.A. thread in the clan forum as a clear example. Started by OhaiReapd who is overall a nice and good member on here. But that thread is against the intention of that forum. Then look at the behaviour of the Chuncky thread in GD. Noone has really offered helpful advice to him there, even if it is a troll with a really stupid question. But the first response to trolls is do not respond, not make it worse by joining in. And yet that is still what happened there. And here and there this happens by members who overall aren't all that bad. Banning is usually too harsh, giving them a tap on the fingers over the internet isn't possible.
The new direction Ingar has set is a solution to this conundrum. Define it as the hard way for you and the easy way for us. It used to be the other way around.

[Saliva]

It's hilarious how some of the trolls here approve their upcoming bans with positive comments. I think you have done a great disservice to the tremulous community by releasing horrible maps like procyon Ingar but this is a good way to redeem yourself.

[jit]

procyron is a great map.only took me 20 plays to learn half the map.

[Ingar]

Also, I don't think ingar has anything to do with the operations of the official servers(other than having admin)

I have admin level 4 on US1 and (I think) admin level 3 on EU1, I have no console access so I do not decide what maps go on.
(I did ask to install Sirius though, I feel like playing it again some day  ).

The new direction Ingar has set is a solution to this conundrum. Define it as the hard way for you and the easy way for us. It used to be the other way around.

Because the mods don't wanna do it most times. Do YOU want to be in charge of cleaning everyone else's diarrhea?

I think that says it all: it takes a lot of time and effort to carefully wipe everyone's behind.

[Plague Bringer]

We've had an influx of unintentional troll kids lately who have been more than reprimanded for spamming or spelling bad by the forum, yet they continue to spam and spell bad. Are posting rights removable? It's not as though trolls ever learn, though.

[Silver]

To me it depends what you define as a troll and how harshly you react to them.

Idiots who spam and clearly are retards whether intentional or not have no place here and they really just annoy more than amuse people.

I, however, find people like Kaine and the lot to be entertaining.  While they do "troll" they also add a lot of productive things, make solid points, and in reality are only making fun of idiots that deserve it.

So I could see this being as either bad or good.  If you define troll to lightly and you push severe punishments on them you could end up killing 85% of these forum's activity.  I mean, not that it would make a difference since tremulous is practically just a shell of it's former self anyway.  The thought of all that's remaining is the very small player base of 1.2 supporters mingling these forums ignorantly unable to be productive or helpful just scares me.  This is what always bothered me about the idea of so many MG members having power(yes I know neither ignar or survivor are a part of that but my point is still standing) if you give too much voice to one group and erase the voices of other, or ignore them, the individuality and growth of the game is severely stunted or destroyed. 

My overall point is.

Clean up the absolute junk, but don't demean or erase the voice of the people especially the people who care.  Even though some of us dislike 1.2, we still strongly love and support tremulous.  Ozzy put hundreds of his own dollars and now I have put hundreds of dollars into making sure tremulous 1.1 has at least 1 pure server left on it's list in the shit-fest of mods.  I have spent collectively over 200 hours on MG Dev and GPP trying to get changes made in a direction that I thought were more productive to the game(albeit it failed).  So even though some of us come off as harsh or hateful, it's not our desire.  Our real desire is to show the strong love for the game we once had, before MG fucked it up.

[K-otic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsogswrH6ck

[CreatureofHell]

Interesting...How many active mods do you have to help impose these crushing limits on our freedom?

[A Spork]

I would personally think that a forum this size needs at least 4 active mods...