Humans overpowered.

[c4]

Again, learn to play, and trem isn't anything like NS...In fact, NS came after trem.

[Asvarox]

I'm not sure what are you trying to achieve by comparing other Trem-like (and even statistics from these) games to Tremulous. You want devs to use exactly same statistics as these?

Tremulous has different approach in balancing the game. It doesn't mean that it's unbalanced though. So far you are the only one in this thread who thinks so (didn't check though, don't want to waste my time reading whole thread) while really experienced and skilled players say you are wrong. I don't recall seeing you in game so I can't really judge how good you are (though I believe you aren't doing well as aliens guessing from your posts), but when people who I know tell you are wrong - I'm more willing to believe them.

Also you comparison rant vs luci is really silly. It takes 3 hits (your argument that it's the most powerful attack or something doesn't make sense, powerful doesn't mean it's hard - and it isn't) to kill a BSuit Luci as Rant, while it takes 2 Luci charges to kill a rant. Though it takes like 3 seconds to full charge - 3 seconds which allow rant to charge into you even from far away, and slash you at least once. While you have to charge it again. In fact even mara can take out singe luci or at least hurt it badly.

Also if you say that trem is like quake I would say that you haven't played these games. I can say too, that Rifle is just same as M4A1, Mass Driver is similar to AWM (or hoverer it's called) and Chaingun is similar to that rambo thing. Does it mean that Trem is like CS?

[Pazuzu]

And lol@stats

I can bring the stats in one team you have Counter Terrorists (SK) and in other Terrorirsts (some noob players) and that will be the proof that CT's are overpowered in CS right?
Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.

Do you understand sample size? In order for that to be even close to applicable, the teams would have to be badly stacked, consistently, for thousands of games. If anything, the pros all have binds to join the human team, making the noobs join alien.
I call it as I see it, and I see the aliens winning about as often as humans do. Maybe everyone else is right and you just suck haven't had as much practice playing a melee class as a ranged one. How many FPSes have you played where you need to fire a gun to kill the enemy? Exactly. Now, how many games have you played that were mostly melee?

[DeadMeat]

before you completely faint and melt how great natural selection is and trem is just a hollow shell of it, i would recommend some reading first. xD

Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.

so i made your homework (2 mins of google) and see what ive found, wooo! (http://www.bryns.co.uk/ns2/tutorial-ns-frontiersmen.html)

marine weapons in ns2.

Light Machine Gun (LMG) - omg a RIFLE
Pistol - blaster
Knife - trem has psaw, would you prefer to stab a tyrant to death instead of grinding it down?
Shotgun
Grenade Launcher (no it wasnt in quake)
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG) - chaingun
Trip Mine - no mines in default trem, but there are in mods
Jet Pack - ohnoes, happy camping time, wait for the goon
Heavy Armour - battlesuit
Welder - "A weapon/utility that is the only device capable of repairing any of your marine structures after an attack by the kharaa... Although it replaces the pistol it is advisable to equip at least one marine especially since he can repair the heavy armour on the fly..."

Structures

Sentry Turrets -
"Available to be placed in any area within the range of a turret factory. Sporting a fast rate of fire and 360 degree’s field of fire this device is great for defending key locations without the need of tying up any marines. "

Siege Turret- "Can only be placed within the power radius of an advanced armoury and without the ability to target any aliens this would seem at first a useless turret. Yet the siege turret is able to destroy any alien structure with a few shots and with the ability to shoot through walls this is an unstoppable weapon." Teeeeesla, need a ddddddccccc

Motion tracking - "ability to see any moving alien, removing their prime asset of surprise. Marines can now easily track and hunt down the infestation and sport mass incoming assaults in enough time to prepare defences." wooooot, helmet!

Infantry Portal - "...Without it no marine can spawn and the aliens can attack at will. ..

Armoury - The armoury allows marines to ‘use’ it to gain free ammunition for any weapon. It also gives the commander the ability to drop new weapons and build new structures."

Observatory - "The observatory allows motion tracking to be enabled and for the use of scanner sweeps to reveal areas to the commander or to the siege turrets. " - FFS, this is the DC

Resource Tower - RC

Phase gate - teleport

Arms Lab - "Allows for the upgrading of weapons and armour and for the construction of new buildings and weapons " - gives you S2

Prototype Lab - "Equipment that is cleared for fieldtesting is programmed into the prototype lab. As of this manual, prototype equipment consists of heavy armour and jet pack technology. This equipment is powerful, and cutting edge. Whether its cost is justified is a matter of debate, and left to command strategy." - gives you S3

oh and there is flamethrower now (not in this doc)

laserguns, railguns and pulse rifles are very common in scifi movies, not quake invented them.

Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.

wow in tremulous you place a reactor (strategic locations ftw), build various buildings, so the game has a strategic element!

Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.

i have no idea why is it good or not. and why is it strategic.

and btw you left out chaingun from your (omg quake ripoff) weapon list - basically these are the standard weapons in all fps for 15 years.

so now all we can kneel in front of the unique mindblowing creativity of NS

[geg_Ma3gau]

All these 10000 games statistics show is that  devs want won/lost games even for both teams disregarding the quality of players in each of them. And they are good at it. What is lost in the chart is that both teams are unique and statistically better players might tend to join one of the teams more hence even if its balance wise weaker, it gets as much wins as the other team. If i want to play a shooter i go launch cs 1.6, trem is not particularly good in this part so i most of the time join aliens for example. You need to provide a statistic which takes skill into account. 2 teams switching places in a series of matches with players of same skill. Also: this chart doesnt take in to account of how much effort one team should put in to win a game. Example: spamming 3 luci is nowhere near difficult as winning with 3 rants being focused by rets/all human team. Same as SC/SC2 where zerg should have better micro on average to be able to compete.

[BlOw*Up]

before you completely faint and melt how great natural selection is and trem is just a hollow shell of it, i would recommend some reading first. xD

Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.

so i made your homework (2 mins of google) and see what ive found, wooo! (http://www.bryns.co.uk/ns2/tutorial-ns-frontiersmen.html)

marine weapons in ns2.

Light Machine Gun (LMG) - omg a RIFLE
Pistol - blaster
Knife - trem has psaw, would you prefer to stab a tyrant to death instead of grinding it down?
Shotgun
Grenade Launcher (no it wasnt in quake)
Heavy Machine Gun (HMG) - chaingun
Trip Mine - no mines in default trem, but there are in mods
Jet Pack - ohnoes, happy camping time, wait for the goon
Heavy Armour - battlesuit
Welder - "A weapon/utility that is the only device capable of repairing any of your marine structures after an attack by the kharaa... Although it replaces the pistol it is advisable to equip at least one marine especially since he can repair the heavy armour on the fly..."

Structures

Sentry Turrets -
"Available to be placed in any area within the range of a turret factory. Sporting a fast rate of fire and 360 degree’s field of fire this device is great for defending key locations without the need of tying up any marines. "

Siege Turret- "Can only be placed within the power radius of an advanced armoury and without the ability to target any aliens this would seem at first a useless turret. Yet the siege turret is able to destroy any alien structure with a few shots and with the ability to shoot through walls this is an unstoppable weapon." Teeeeesla, need a ddddddccccc

Motion tracking - "ability to see any moving alien, removing their prime asset of surprise. Marines can now easily track and hunt down the infestation and sport mass incoming assaults in enough time to prepare defences." wooooot, helmet!

Infantry Portal - "...Without it no marine can spawn and the aliens can attack at will. ..

Armoury - The armoury allows marines to ‘use’ it to gain free ammunition for any weapon. It also gives the commander the ability to drop new weapons and build new structures."

Observatory - "The observatory allows motion tracking to be enabled and for the use of scanner sweeps to reveal areas to the commander or to the siege turrets. " - FFS, this is the DC

Resource Tower - RC

Phase gate - teleport

Arms Lab - "Allows for the upgrading of weapons and armour and for the construction of new buildings and weapons " - gives you S2

Prototype Lab - "Equipment that is cleared for fieldtesting is programmed into the prototype lab. As of this manual, prototype equipment consists of heavy armour and jet pack technology. This equipment is powerful, and cutting edge. Whether its cost is justified is a matter of debate, and left to command strategy." - gives you S3

oh and there is flamethrower now (not in this doc)

laserguns, railguns and pulse rifles are very common in scifi movies, not quake invented them.

Now if you have ever played Natural Selection you start a game, build resource towers on strategic locations, build various buildings for various upgrades so the game really has strategic element.

wow in tremulous you place a reactor (strategic locations ftw), build various buildings, so the game has a strategic element!

Also instead of just point & click for making buildings you have to go to the building and press use key to build.

i have no idea why is it good or not. and why is it strategic.

and btw you left out chaingun from your (omg quake ripoff) weapon list - basically these are the standard weapons in all fps for 15 years.

so now all we can kneel in front of the unique mindblowing creativity of NS

So you didnt even play the game and you make some stupid comments?

Siege turret is not Tesla because tesla damages aliens sige does not it is only for damaging buildings.
So if mines are in the mod that means what?
Nothing mines still are not in trem.

Yes in tremulous you plant reactor so what?
Do you place resource towers on gas in order to harvest it and get resources?
Because you have to build resource towers where the gas is the more you have them the more resources you get you also have to defend the resource towers. Also killing players will get you no evo or credit points everything is based on resources. And you will have to spend them correctly because you want only the upgrades that are useful in certian map.
Also for humans not every noob with with 600 credits can buy weapons like luci cannon because it is up to commander to give better weapons to better players because if you mix up you have just screw your team up you spent resources for nothing and after that you can loose a RC.

So if you think this is in anyway trem like then you are just silly.

And when I was comparing trem to quake I didnt talk about names or what weapons you feel like are similar but because tremulous has a lot of ACTUAL MODDED QUAKE 3 WEAPONS IN IT and by modded I mean just different skins however the rate of fire, the movment of projectiles even damage is the same as in quake 3.


Jetpack has fuel so you cant use it all the time.
Motion tracking is not helmet it is a upgrade that you need to research and you see a circle on the wall where alien is instead of just red dots.
Observatory enables tracking aliens only to commander not all players because commander has top down rts view and he controls other human player by pointing to which waypoint they must go and what and where to build structures.
There is flamethrower in NS?
I dont think so.
Maybe it will be in NS2 but I doubt that you just made this up.

[c4]

Then go play your Natural Selection game, and leave us alone?

[DeadMeat]

we can argue about the details (which makes the two games different) but the key concepts are damn same.

Jetpack has fuel Wink so you cant use it all the time.

it exists in trem on some servers too.

[Meisseli]

I think because NS is a first-person shooter it is a clear copy of Wolfenstein 3D!

And yes. The statistics indeed always lie. Clearly every single good player ever to play Tremulous goes aliens!

Seriously, if your brain matter happens to be that decayed I suggest you go play your CS/NS/Gloom.

Next time find some valid arguments to come by and we will take you seriously.

[geg_Ma3gau]

If you are so clever, find an error in my arguments? Prove im wrong.

Otherwise stay silend and dont make yourself look dumb.

[Haraldx]

Let's clear it up - A luci can actually do more then 300 damage to a rant (The max I have received is 324). NS came after Trem, NS is more like strategy - it has more buildings and instead of trem, which mainly consists of 3 buildings (Defences, Main building( / ), spawns), It has many support buildings. NS has commander/leader thingy. Weapons such as machine gun (rifle), Shotgun, pistol (blaster), Heavy machine gun (chaingun) are extremely common in these day games. I'm pretty sure NS devs had the idea after playing a bit of trem - it won't be suprising.

Tremulous is not like quake 3?
You can bunny hop, pulse rifle = plasma gun, painsaw = gauntlet, luci = bfg, mass driver = rail gun, shotgun = shotgun, machinegun = rifle, flamethrower = LG.

Bunny hop - Also able to do that in Quake 4 (multiplayer), Counter-strike, all other quake games, Half-life and Half-life 2 + it's addons (including multiplayer and other mods).
Pulse rifle = plasma gun - You can't wall-run, prifle has ammo capacity (magazines) while plasma doesn't, prifle has slower projectile, prifle doesn't have as big projectile, prifle doesn't have 5cm big splash damage.
Painsaw = gauntlet - Painsaw has lower damage, higher damage repeat, different aiming properties (has smaller aim), Has longer range, Gauntlet was built in a glove, psaw is a psaw.
Luci = BFG - Luci has charged shots, luci deals higher damage, has slower projectiles, bigger splash. I would more compare it to Rocket launcher.
Mass driver = rail gun - Rail gun has MUCH wider shot, deals about 120 damage, has no zoom ability, has no reloading.
Shotgun = shotgun - ... you just compared 2 identical purpose weapons... The only difference is that, shotgun is double barreled while Shotgun has 1 barrel but has 8 round magazine.
Machine gun = rifle - Machine gun was actually a chain gun (it had 4 barrels).
Flame thrower = LG - http://www.zoneshot.com/server/dg/facepalm.jpg


You'r arguments are ABSOLUTELY wrong, therefore - you suck! Eat if fatty. Learn to play... Both quake 3 and trem.

[A Spork]

Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.

And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....

[Aviator]

Pretty damn balanced.

[c4]

spork wtf u r pro okz?  the essence of friend basi will help thee.

[Lecavalier]

First off, one grenade can not, I repeat not kill a tyrant. And it certainly can't...

1   can kill   Just sayin'

I know there's people out there that believe the above quote. I just wanted to clear the air on that subject.

And lol@stats

Stats are just that aliens have better players nothing more.

Come on man, now you're just grasping at straws (that aren't even there).

A can kill easily a   . Wrong.
A luci can kill easily a   and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit. also wrong(2 luci shots, assuming they both hit and are charged enough, are needed to kill a rant).
A needs to chomp much 5 times to kill a    fixed but still pointless
A can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss. you just need more practice
A needs to slice 3 times to kill   yup
A is useless if   not at all true
A can kill   in 3 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and go in groups Grangers are also green and should never be used for combat
A can PwN   AND   , but not   5 of those are static objects that can't defend themselves, and if you're being PwNed by mara when you got a   you're beyond help
A can't hide in his house anymore.   neither can humans with ckit
2   can destroy   and all other that surrounds it. 2 grenades can not kill the overmind (om has 750hp and nades only do 310dmg), and can only kill some things around it


There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!

shout out to Kharnov and his gang for their tremulous guide that I got some numbers from.

[BlOw*Up]

Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.

And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....

You must be aline pro player then? O MA GA
So from my comments you think you can take me lol.
I bet I play with aliens better then you.
In fact
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516

Since you have your stats in SIG and you proudly show them for ego boost or something.
Still hummies are overpowered or maybe is just because they are more easily playable and most people know how to play with them because they played all other FPS with guns.

[HimSelf.]

Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.

And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....

ok its on. bring it nub

[A Spork]

Re: Humans are Overpowered:
I dare you to 1v1 me.
I guarantee My Friend will tear your head to shreds 4 times out of 5.

And I may be many things, but I'm pretty sure I'm not pro....

You must be aline pro player then? O MA GA

can you not read man???
I already said Im not pro.

So from my comments you think you can take me lol.
I bet I play with aliens better then you.
In fact
http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516

Yes, your comments do make me think I could take you, not because im that great, but because you sound like an inexperienced whiny little noob.
And guess what? Your tremstats link proves it. 20 games sure as heck aint enough to make an informed descision.

Since you have your stats in SIG and you proudly show them for ego boost or something.
Still hummies are overpowered or maybe is just because they are more easily playable and most people know how to play with them because they played all other FPS with guns.

Actually I mainly have that in my sig to
A) show my ingame name at the time and
B) for the random quote.


Humans aren't overpowered, however they are more noob-friendly, because, as you pointed out, they're very similar in playstyle to pretty much every other fps in existence.

You're grasping at non-existent straws.
Just face the facts buddy, humans aren't overpowered, you're the only one who thinks they are.

My suspicion is that you think they're overpowered wimpy because you haven't learned to play aliens properly yet. Go learn how to dretch, and you'll be much less convinced humans are overpowered.

[Lecavalier]

http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/player_details.php?player_id=10516

This is you?
This player, with only 28 games of experience, is you?
This player, who has only played as humans for 25 minuets, is you?
This player, who has only been playing for one day, is you?
Who the hell do you think you are?

Leave these forums and don't come back until you've learned what it really means for a game to be balanced.

[Demolution]

lolirony:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u309/nikolawebpage/lolirony.jpg

[Asvarox]

Let's clear it up - A luci can actually do more then 300 damage to a rant (The max I have received is 324)

According to the firm site, Luci's max damage us 265, so someone has to either bleed you or shoot you along with luci guy, just to clear it up

[Meisseli]

So much stuff wrong in this thread. Granger needs 3 headshots to kill an unarmoured human!  

If you are so clever, find an error in my arguments? Prove im wrong.

Otherwise stay silend and dont make yourself look dumb.

Killing lucifers is easy with dretches due to the decreased spread and charge time. You can get 1-2 bites + poison + damage they take from lucying you from close distance. Dretch is also free - you're able to dretchspam. Also, goons are nice to use with pounces, snipes and poison. Killing a luci with a tyrant most of the time is no trouble too. Also, lucifers need to get to your base and start destroying buildings to be of an actual use, where they are easier to pick. And with the charge time being longer, killing structures takes a lot more time now.

As to your skill argument, just look at the top players in http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/eu1/top_players.php and http://stats.tremulous.net/tremstats/us1/top_players.php and you will see that people usually do not favour any team significantly (usually only ~2 hours - 32:00 vs. 30:00 for example)


I think most of the "humans are overpowered" guys think so only because the human team usually gains more kills.

[geg_Ma3gau]

I cant agree dretches are killers of luci as long as luci can instakill at once few of them. If anything, mara and tyrant are anti luci weapons imo. Mara, being able to dodge lots and lots of fire while poisoning humans and running away after Tyrants having a lot of damage. Goon vs luci is imo a bad idea. I usually dont use goon for anything other than HS 1 pwnage and human base sniping because i dont find them enough survivable for their cost(size and teammate blocking kills them in general combat). You can always hit n run with them but for general combat imo rant of mara are more cost effective.

My point is: human team is cheap, it requires lots of spam or camp to win (chainsuit and luci spam). Aliens need more effort to win.

And still, rant player duelling dedicated luci player shouldnt win. Luci should be spammed in the way of possible trample preemptively. The problem is that if human player gets enough skill he can be nearly unkillable with luci and punish anyone who tries to kill him. For aliens, same problem as for Pyro class in TF2 if anyone played it: no matter your skill, your attack range puts a STRONG limit to your effectiveness (the top level of effectiveness of alien lies strictly lower than the top level of effectiveness for human and on high skill levels aliens have increasingly more and more trouble staying on par with humans of same skill).

[Meisseli]

You ought to since a lucifer sure has problems with dretches if they only use walls, ceilings and so on effectively to land a bite. Dretches are an inexhaustible resource (at least until all eggs are down) and so they pose a serious threat even though one dretch usually can't win a lucifer by itself.

Maras are fairly easy to kill with lucifer when you get the hang of it - only problem lies in that killing a marauder in your face with luci makes for an enormous amount of splash damage to your head region. They should be taken from a distance if possible.

Also: goon is up until S3 the most powerful alien. I don't usually have any problems surviving S2 with a goon. I believe most of the kills made by aliens are by goon, still. It's much more effective than a marauder in widespread killwhoring albeit marauder is more fun, challenging and the most teamwork-able alien.

Most of the time tyrant wins against a lucifer (or it's a draw, both die), unless the lucifer can get some high ground from tight corridors etc. Still, the speedy 1.2 lucifer projectile is fairly easy to dodge, and you just have to time your attack against the lucifer right.

I don't really think the human team requires any more "spam" than "mara spam" or "tyrant spam" and so. And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.

The last one I do agree on, on high skill levels aliens generally require more effort to stay on par with humans of same skill level. Although I think that's mainly only because of the weak dretch and the advantage gained from killing dretches. Skilled goons for example annihilate skilled humans, and skilled marauders are usually on the same level as skilled humans.

[Conzul]

And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.

I think often a nub chainsuit is equal to a skilled lucifer wielder. And a LuciSuit is an a blind self-killer.

[Celestial_Rage]

And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.

I think often a nub chainsuit is equal to a skilled lucifer wielder. And a LuciSuit is an a blind self-killer.

 

[Haraldx]

A can kill easily a   . Wrong.
A luci can kill easily a   and even more easily all other aliens in 1 hit. also wrong(2 luci shots, assuming they both hit and are charged enough, are needed to kill a rant).
A needs to chomp much 5 times to kill a    fixed but still pointless
A can always use pounce, but it's hard in wide spaces and easy to miss. you just need more practice
A needs to slice 3 times to kill   yup
A is useless if   not at all true
A can kill   in 3 head bites, but it's hard and enemy has a gun and go in groups Grangers are also green and should never be used for combat
A can PwN   AND   , but not   5 of those are static objects that can't defend themselves, and if you're being PwNed by mara when you got a   you're beyond help
A can't hide in his house anymore.   neither can humans with ckit
2   can destroy   and all other that surrounds it. 2 grenades can not kill the overmind (om has 750hp and nades only do 310dmg), and can only kill some things around it


There, some facts. I have no idea what this proves but oh well, the life is a real mess. Thanks!

Dude... I can't agree about the last one... Who would just rush in the base, drop 2 grenades, and just run away, hoping that the explosion would get bigger and om will get destroyed? WHO? I SAID "WHO?" YOU FREAK? If you really just rush in the enemy base, drop a nade and run like a faggot not trying to destroy anything else, then you are a faggot.

About Granger, sheesh dude, you are taking it too seriously.
About goon pounces, That means 78.36% server players need to practice.
About and  , same as with  .
About goon chomps, I don't count like a retarded criple faggot how many times I hit a virtual man, in virtual armor with a virtual alien. The fact is that Goon chomps are extremely useless against Bsuit, not even talking about that you may accidently hit them in legs or torso.
About basi, friend  is for regeneration and stealth kills - that is, hide, wait for enemy, leave your cover, feast with fresh human flesh. Basi isn't useful against head-on attacks because of their low hp and big bounding box (if that is bounding box ofcourse).
About mara, Bsuit can easily be taken down, if they have psaw or rifle (in some cases also prifle)
About rant and luci, as I said, max damage I have received from a luci is 324 damage. If you are wouned, which you probably are, you can be killed in 1 hit.

[Lecavalier]

Dude... I can't agree about the last one... Who would just rush in the base, drop 2 grenades, and just run away, hoping that the explosion would get bigger and om will get destroyed? WHO? I SAID "WHO?" YOU FREAK? If you really just rush in the enemy base, drop a nade and run like a faggot not trying to destroy anything else, then you are a faggot.

You need to calm down there bro. I'm just stating the facts, not assuming hypothetical situations. And please don't use words like "FREAK" and "faggot" as they are rude and make you look childish.

About Granger, sheesh dude, you are taking it too seriously.

You brought up the topic. I merely corrected you, and elaborated on it.

Basi isn't useful against head-on attacks

I never said they were.

I don't count like a retarded criple faggot

This is the point at which I lost all respect for you, and you lost all credibility. Oh, and you spelt "cripple" wrong.  

as I said, max damage I have received from a luci is 324 damage.

A fully charged shot from a Lucifer cannon does 265 damage. gg.

Also, if you are going to respond to this, please make sure you have intelligent arguments to refute my points. I've wasted enough time cleaning up your garbage.  

[Venkman]

You ought to since a lucifer sure has problems with dretches if they only use walls, ceilings and so on effectively to land a bite. Dretches are an inexhaustible resource (at least until all eggs are down) and so they pose a serious threat even though one dretch usually can't win a lucifer by itself.

Maras are fairly easy to kill with lucifer when you get the hang of it - only problem lies in that killing a marauder in your face with luci makes for an enormous amount of splash damage to your head region. They should be taken from a distance if possible.

Also: goon is up until S3 the most powerful alien. I don't usually have any problems surviving S2 with a goon. I believe most of the kills made by aliens are by goon, still. It's much more effective than a marauder in widespread killwhoring albeit marauder is more fun, challenging and the most teamwork-able alien.

Most of the time tyrant wins against a lucifer (or it's a draw, both die), unless the lucifer can get some high ground from tight corridors etc. Still, the speedy 1.2 lucifer projectile is fairly easy to dodge, and you just have to time your attack against the lucifer right.

I don't really think the human team requires any more "spam" than "mara spam" or "tyrant spam" and so. And I would really argue that skilled chainsuits are a lot more of a problem than skilled lucifers.

The last one I do agree on, on high skill levels aliens generally require more effort to stay on par with humans of same skill level. Although I think that's mainly only because of the weak dretch and the advantage gained from killing dretches. Skilled goons for example annihilate skilled humans, and skilled marauders are usually on the same level as skilled humans.

From my experience with GPP, all of that was 100% spot-on. Sure because of the Dretch, a skilled human TEAM can straight-up own on a "better-than-average" Alien team, leaving a lot of people bitching about balance.

But when I get to play a round where both teams are equally-skilled, it still feels like anyone's game. Usually then, it all comes down to timing; who's flank was better timed against the others' rush, etc.

Anyway, Meisseli, that was all very well-said.

[Silver]

Y U NO DIE ME BITE UR FETE HRAD.