SEGFAULT - Custom 1.2 client

[tachyon]

Why don't people understand that 1.2 is not out yet? Why bother with clients for a game that's not released?

Sorry to rain on any parade, but all we have is a GPP-Beta

1.2 will use protocol 70, and i doubt there will be major modifications to the client of 1.2

[F50]

Thanks for the cvar parsing! You also may wish to include this patch until the devs get to it, I've found it makes watching demos a lot easier: http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4684

[DeadMeat]

Why don't people understand that 1.2 is not out yet? Why bother with clients for a game that's not released?

Sorry to rain on any parade, but all we have is a GPP-Beta

so what? there are servers you can play 1.2 GPP.
no one should contribute because the game is not released?
I don't get this logic

yeah, keep up the good work! new features, huds, etc!

[FisherP]

so what? there are servers you can play 1.2 GPP.
no one should contribute because the game is not released?
I don't get this logic

yeah, keep up the good work! new features, huds, etc!

What I'm alluding to is that the last thing trem needs is more forks, what it needs is support and help to get 1.2 out in the first place. Why don't you spend your energy instead by find out what needs to be done and offering your services in that area. It seems that the client is pretty much done, the game play is done, if you can do well at modeling then stannum might be need some help. You know there's a call for people to find and submit sounds for the release, why don't u spend your time looking for or making some?

[Meisseli]

I fail to see how a client is a fork.

[F50]

This is no more a fork than most HUDs or gameplay-changing mods. Its a good thing.

[Kiwi]

Nice job, looks good!  If you need help making a mac version, I can help.

[FisherP]

I fail to see how a client is a fork.

The new client is not literally a fork, but it is a code fork, let me explain.

A fork is a deviation from trunk. Something other than the official, developed, main code. Therefore if someone else develops an alternative piece of code and distributes it, it is by definition a fork.

Often the developers of the code will themselves fork a piece of the truck code to develop it separately in order to one day merge it back in. If someone  develops code based on someone else's distributed code it is a fork.

Think of it like a real fork with one tine called trunk (main code). If you take the code and develop it separately you fork it because if the trunk code changes, you need to take the effort to merge it into your code, or ignore it. The two become different as soon as someone changes it. Sometimes forks change so much that they cannot be merged any longer because of some grass roots changes.

Now that we understand what a fork is, the Author of this client took code that was the 1.2 client, and forked it to create a new client. I seriously doubt that he created a completely new client from scratch.

HUD's are not forkable (unless you modify someone else's work) because there is no underlying code changes. HUD's are add-on pieces of bling that was designed for and made allowable by the code of the client. You can make a fork of a client that makes it impossible to load custom HUD's, but where's the fun in that?

Gameplay-changing mods are indeed forks, because they change the underlying code of the game and how it operates. IE, The gameplay-changing mod known as X is a fork because there is underlying code changes.

[Meisseli]

I fail to see how a client is a fork.

The new client is not literally a fork, but it is a code fork, let me explain.

A fork is a deviation from trunk. Something other than the official, developed, main code. Therefore if someone else develops an alternative piece of code and distributes it, it is by definition a fork.

Often the developers of the code will themselves fork a piece of the truck code to develop it separately in order to one day merge it back in. If someone  develops code based on someone else's distributed code it is a fork.

Think of it like a real fork with one tine called trunk (main code). If you take the code and develop it separately you fork it because if the trunk code changes, you need to take the effort to merge it into your code, or ignore it. The two become different as soon as someone changes it. Sometimes forks change so much that they cannot be merged any longer because of some grass roots changes.

Now that we understand what a fork is, the Author of this client took code that was the 1.2 client, and forked it to create a new client. I seriously doubt that he created a completely new client from scratch.

HUD's are not forkable (unless you modify someone else's work) because there is no underlying code changes. HUD's are add-on pieces of bling that was designed for and made allowable by the code of the client. You can make a fork of a client that makes it impossible to load custom HUD's, but where's the fun in that?

Gameplay-changing mods are indeed forks, because they change the underlying code of the game and how it operates. IE, The gameplay-changing mod known as X is a fork because there is underlying code changes.

I know what a fork is.

And I still really wouldn't call it a fork since it doesn't add enough to be called a fork. It doesn't differ from the original client nearly enough. TremFusion is a fork, not this. A fork is something that differs from the original product to a completely new branch.

And I think 100% of HUDs were "forked" from the default HUD.

And I don't understand why you state this client is evil and it shouldn't be updated. It adds very few features to the original client. Even still as it is only sounds and models what's missing from the release, nothing to do with programming a client, which the OP has expertise on. Even more, GPP will still be out for half a year or so. This client has demand.

And after all of that babbling, a request: cg_demoConfig.

[F50]

I've updated my binds with \$Cvar\ and aaaaaaah its so much easier to maintain now. Thanks a lot. One more feature request: /grep or /search. The ability to quickly search the console is something that I would find rather convenient.

[Kiwi]

Hey!  I've compiled SEGFAULT for mac.  You can find the download link here: http://www.mediafire.com/?dvgj353u9v8ggk7 and also http://www.4shared.com/file/4ctBfXhm/Tremulous_Segfaultapp.html.  I know that the name is all messed up and I messed up the icon on the image of Tremulous, but I can fix that when I have time.  I compiled it for a friend who needed it for mac, and I figured that I should upload it here, since nobody seemed to have it yet.  It's zipped so you'll have to unzip it, then place the .app in your /Applications/ folder, next to your current executable.

Hope it helps,
Kiwi

[FisherP]

I know what a fork is.

I don't think you do

And I don't understand why you state this client is evil ...

Never said it was evil. I don't have expertise in sounds or coding but I'm still doing something to help 1.2 come out...so your point is?

[Aelita]

This is not a fork. This is a customized client. Shut up.

[Meisseli]

Why don't people understand that 1.2 is not out yet? Why bother with clients for a game that's not released?

Sorry to rain on any parade, but all we have is a GPP-Beta

What I'm alluding to is that the last thing trem needs is more forks, what it needs is support and help to get 1.2 out in the first place. Why don't you spend your energy instead by find out what needs to be done and offering your services in that area. It seems that the client is pretty much done, the game play is done, if you can do well at modeling then stannum might be need some help. You know there's a call for people to find and submit sounds for the release, why don't u spend your time looking for or making some?

You are clearly stating in those posts that this client is pure evil and all the work towards it should be halted at once.

Perhaps your definition of fork needs some expertise too.

[FisherP]

You are clearly stating in those posts that this client is pure evil and all the work towards it should be halted at once.

Perhaps your definition of fork needs some expertise too.

OoooooKaayyyy, I didn't see any clear indications of what you are saying. Perhaps you need to re-learn the definition of evil and forking (when related to software), let me help you.

Evil:

1evil
\ˈē-vəl, British often & US also ˈē-(ˌ)vil\ adjective
evil·er or evil·lerevil·est or evil·lest
Definition of EVIL
1 a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>
2 a archaic : inferior b : causing discomfort or repulsion : offensive <an evil odor> c : disagreeable <woke late and in an evil temper>
3 a : causing harm : pernicious <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune : unlucky

Thank you merriam-webster.com evil

Fork (software)

In software engineering, a project fork happens when developers take a legal copy of source code from one software package and start independent development on it, creating a distinct piece of software.

Free and open source software is that which, by definition, may be forked from the original development team without prior permission without violating any copyright law. However, licensed forks of proprietary software (e.g. Unix) also happen.

The term fork in this context derives from the use of the term (see Fork (operating system)) in computer operating systems (especially Unix) where it refers to the creation of a copy of a running program (process) by forking a process, which creates two identical processes (like cell division in living things); the two are then independent, and may proceed to do different tasks, as the program dictates. The independent development of two software projects cloned from the same source code is analogous to Unix forking.

taken from Fork (software development) Thank you wikipedia. Take notice of the first sentence please. This client is a fork segfault took the client code and started independent development.

@SEGFAULT, this isn't really an attack on you personally, though it might look like it. It's a general thing, lots of people are forking and doing independent development, but 1.2 is suffering large delays due to not enough focus on what really matters. And I would really like 1.2 to be released.

@ Meisseli, You've missed my point altogether haven't you?

[Meisseli]

3 a : causing harm

Hmm...

And you are misusing terms that you have never used in the right context in your life before.

I'm done banging my head against a brick wall here and letting others flame you to death.

[Crava_Loft]

omg stop talking about forks

[condor]

Lets use some knifes to kill his fork bitching attitude!

[Aelita]

He also forgets the fact that forks frequently push patches/updates back to the master project.

[c4]

He also forgets the fact that forks frequently push patches/updates back to the master project.

Bamn-FisherP Forgot to pack a fork. 

New command for segfault please...
/evilfork

[Teapot]

When people pull out the dictionary, they're (often) ignoring common usage = fail.
Telling people what they should do without appreciation for what they want to do = fail.
Creating something useful = win.

Thanks again for the client. We (at dTrem) will probably base our dHumans client on it (for the humans vs humans mod) if all goes well.

[freezway]

Trying it now, I can provide 64 bit builds.

EDIT: pretty good, I filed a bug in your tracker. The bloom flickers while moving... Also, I can't get the console settings to work.

EDIT 2: about forks, the point of open source is to let people change and improve on the current project if they want. yeah, it leads to fragmentation, but is that a bad thing? choice is good (and perhaps confusing to windows users)

EDIT 3: heres a link to a .txt file that has a link to my 64 bit builds

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8605870/segfaultVersions.txt

EDIT 4: Man I like the modify button, but anyway, it would be great if you could update the source with more comments, I'm trying to piece my way through it, but understand what something does without know what its supposed to do is hard.

[jez]

Hey!  I've compiled SEGFAULT for mac. [...]

Awesome, thanks a bunch.

[Celestial_Rage]

I'm curious, how hard would it be to put an ncurses console like in Tremfusion?

[Chomps123]

i love the bloom effect.

reminds me of nexuiz in top graphics.

[SlackerLinux]

I'm curious, how hard would it be to put an ncurses console like in Tremfusion?

trivial since tremfusion has done the hard work already

[TANK]

Bloom looks good, why it flickers when i move?
Bloom + water reflection + bump mapping + official client = FTW = i want it NOW !!!

[Chomps123]

You can fix it by typing /r_bloom_sample_size 400 in the console (I believe this should be default personally, no point in a broken bloom)
Some other settings I like (just my personal preference, the above fixes the issue just fine) are:
r_bloom_alpha .1 (default: .5)
r_bloom_darken 1.5 (default 4)
r_bloom_intensity 4 (default 1.3)

right from the issues page

[Celestial_Rage]

I'm curious, how hard would it be to put an ncurses console like in Tremfusion?

trivial since tremfusion has done the hard work already

Is it as simple as copying and pasting the relevant files and modifying the Makefile or is it more involved than that?

[Aelita]

Probably not, you'd be better off making a diff of the respective files used in the ncurses console code and patching it in, instead of wildly copying files and such.