I am curious...

[DraZiLoX]

X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.

It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".

They are not 0s

[Asvarox]

If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?If they are so damn popular why they wont remove boxes from name, so it's sorted normally?

You guys are making me laugh.... I have seen X move up and down the list... Its not always on top, its sometimes WAY down on the list.... How many times do I have to say that... And I dont sort by PING...

Another reason to remove boxes. If those don't work anyway, why keep them? That's all I want, they do it and I'm fine with them.

Hello, I am an admin and developer on XserverX servers and I would like to weigh on this discussion.

X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.

It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".

most people will sort by ping so i dont really believe that adding box chars to get on top of list is valid

Thank you proving that you are unaware of what they are actually doing. They are not adding "box chars". Those sir are zeros. Anybody can use them. If you do not know where the 0 key is, it is to the right of the "9" key and left of the "-" key on the number line.

Those zeros has sharp edges sir




...not that sorting by ping is borked in vanilla (as well as in tjw's) and that newbies don't care about server list sorting anyway, right?

[DraZiLoX]

Is SENSORED same than 0 ?

[UniqPhoeniX]

BULLSHIT about them being zeroes. How about you stop lying? It's abuse as that was not the intended use, and you are getting an advantage from it.
It's too radically different for gameplay skills to be transferable, so it is not Tremulous. This is not true in the other way however, much of what is learned on other servers is usable on X, so many consider X gameplay newbish.
You are saying X requires a 'different' set of skills/strategies? What skills/strategies?
Yes, X newbies fail about as bad as normal newbies on other servers, so, all the time they played on X was wasted if they thought they could become any better.

DraZiLoX: SHHH
EDIT: oh yeah, I forgot about sort by ping being borked.

[Colynn']

X is the co_ server of Tremulous, and I hope it will stay on 1.1.

[F50]

Hello, I am an admin and developer on XserverX servers and I would like to weigh on this discussion.

X got much of it's popularity from abusing the way the default client sorts the server list to get itself at/near the top.

It is not "abuse" but rather use of the sorting system to boost our placement above others. However, every other server has the ability to take advantage of the same method. In you server.cfg simply make your server name have a lot of 0s (zero) in front of it. I.e. add "set sv_hostname 0000000000^1SomeServer".

Its an ugly attempt to put your server further up on the server list. If its working, then that's a ugly hack, if its not, then its a shameful mess. Either way this is not proper use of the system. The creators of the system changed it due to this kind of use. As someone said earlier: just because anyone can use this hack doesn't mean this is fair play.

Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.

Au contraire. It IS Tremulous, just a radically different gameplay style. It seems you and your compatriots believe we ensnare players and make them think that our server is representative of Tremulous as a whole. However, we have never made such a claim, as it would be erroneous to do so. We have only instituted a method of gameplay that we enjoy and gone forward with it.

It is not tremulous gameplay, it is, in your own words, a radically different gameplay style. I admit you have not outright claimed that your server is representative of tremulous, that would be rediculous. I'm sure if asked directly, you would state the truth. However, the only thing I see you doing to present this is your website, linked to by the motd. This is insufficient. Everything else, such as the base-folder mod, is masking the truth by witholding information. I do not belive its due dilligence. I've personally /denybuilded *many* on AA for battlegranging because for some reasons people are convinced it works. I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"? Yes, people are convinced by your silence.

Players coming off from the X server also often find it hard to kill anyone on a normal server, so they are forced to return to the X server.  A black hole effect if you will...

Let us look at this from another light. Players coming to other servers from never having played will find it near impossible to kill someone at first. The same issue occurs with X. So your argument that we make players worse is invalid. X just requires a different set of skills / strategies than do vanilla servers and while playing on X players gain experience for X, not normal servers.

If only people understood that then this argument would disappear.

It further alienates the rest of the community by pretending to be something its not. All of its mod files are placed in the base folder, something which should be reserved for, you guessed it, the game's base files. This is both untidy and not particularly honest.

By mod files I assume you are referring to the 3 custom maps we have and the X server graphics mod. Because other than that, X utilizes no custom mods. And it is our decision to use that space. That does not make it untidy or dishonest. Rather, it makes it a bit more tidy. Because if you are looking for files from X, you know where to look.

What? Do I have to explain qvm development to you? If the damage of weapons and hp of classes have been changed, you are running a gameplay changing mod. You might care to read the sticky in that forum. Do I also have to explain the tremulous folder structure to you? Firstly, maps always go into the base folder. The graphics mod is technically fine the base folder, but since it belongs to the gameplay mod, does it not belong in that (nonexistant) folder? And I am not necessarily talking about file structure clientside, if you cared to read the gameplay-changing mod sticky you might understand my reasons for asking this of you.

That is true, but it means you cannot have a separate set of binds for vanilla tremulous and X server, this is a problem for people who build their binds based on tactical combinations, or want "itemtoggle blaster" set to the right mouse button instead of "itemact medkit". I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much.

Sure you can. Just make a .cfg file such as "x.cfg", add your binds, and place it in your base folder, then when in game do "/exec x.cfg" and you will have custom binds to use on X.

That they mod is fine, its that they mod *improperly*

No. We mod *differently*.

I like autoexec.cfg thank you very much. I cannot take seriously such a refusal to change less than 20 characters in one file, which I assume you know about.

I challenge X to survive long term after removing the boxes from it's name

Again with the ignorance. They are not boxes, but zeros.

They look the boxes, the box tool in gimp fits them perfectly. They are boxes. The fact that they are technically zeros does not invalidate his statement.

EDIT: It appears I gave you too much credibillity. I originally thought they were null characters, but apparently they have more in common with 1 than 0

Why people here generally don't like X:

Users such as yourself.  NO OFFENSE, THOUGH.

You aren't helping your cause there buddy. Just coming in and not contributing to the discussion at hand, but rather tossing an insult at another user certainly makes you seem like the image of a great user yourself.

Indeed

[hermxiv]

Those zeros has sharp edges sir

Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.

[hermxiv]

Those zeros has sharp edges sir

Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.

[tuple]

Laughable.

Non ascii characters.  Calling them zeros is just lying by omission.

[your face]

Looks like lucifer666s8n had to call in the cavalry.

[David]

Granted, but they are zeros nonetheless. Trust me on this one, or just make a server yourself real quick it will take like 5 min. In server.cfg change sv_hostname to 0000000000000000000000000000X and watch as your server goes higher up than X. Also you will have boxy zeroes.

Lies, you'll be lower, as '0' (48) sorts below SOH (1) which you are using.

The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.

[UniqPhoeniX]

The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.

Except that could be bypassed by lying to master, so clients have to discard it.

[lucifer666s8n]

X is the co_ server of Tremulous, and I hope it will stay on 1.1.

co_ ? Sorry if that escapes me....

I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"?

And I have heard people say the same thing in reverse... 'WTF! That Tyrant has a nade WTF hax!!!' So your servers ingrain a set standard for Trem gameplay as well... Herm is correct in the difference between X and Vanilla Trem... It is radically different gameplay, and most people seem to figure that out... Just cause people attempt to use strategies etc from X on vanilla servers is not OUR fault... They are the players, and can do whatever they feel will win...

Looks like lucifer666s8n had to call in the cavalry.

Dont enjoy not getting to just pick on the One person involved eh? Herm has the technical answers I do not... As with the links I posted earlier in this thread, the wanton attacks on X server when the admins post our info... So sorry for letting others know about this thread... 

[David]

The server name isn't text, and IMO should be discarded by the master server as malformed.

Except that could be bypassed by lying to master, so clients have to discard it.

Because it's not like we can spot that, and block the servers.  Thus they would be shooting themselves in the foot somewhat.
If I wasn't so lazy there are tons of ways to mess with servers.

[F50]

I have heard people say things like "wtf, hax! That dretch survived one blaster shot!!!"?

And I have heard people say the same thing in reverse... 'WTF! That Tyrant has a nade WTF hax!!!'

Indeed, and this is my point. People don't know that they are playing a modded server. In order to figure out that X is modded they need to either visit the website (yeah right) or play at least two other servers and even then they have to come across something like that. People don't know that X is modded until they have a wtf moment. This is not becoming of such a popular mod. One line in the motd would solve this issue for me.

EDIT: the other main thing is the boxes, though that soon will be rendered moot by the master server I hope.

I don't think that this will make everyone feel good about X, but if you go and read your threads you'll find there are quite a few people who's issues with the server revolve around things like this. Personally I might as well give it another try with that knowledge, since I really haven't spent the hour or so necessary to actually decide (and not to do so and still speak poorly of its changes would be hypocritical considering my attitude concerning 1.2)

[A Spork]

Put "This server is heavily modded" in the motd, and pretty much everyone would be much happier about it.(Not to say they would be totally, but it would help)

[lucifer666s8n]

Personally I might as well give it another try with that knowledge, since I really haven't spent the hour or so necessary to actually decide (and not to do so and still speak poorly of its changes would be hypocritical considering my attitude concerning 1.2)

You might find it fun... after all, it is a change and rather fast paced... Unless you would rather it be slower....

"This server is heavily modded"

A simple yet descriptive sentence... And without the flaming... Thanks Spork

[Colynn']

You create a server heavily moded denaturing the vanilla gameplay, making useless all the precedent tactics, bases and way of playing from a 1.1 server, giving a wrong idea of what Tremulous at the base is to the newbies after having put your server on the top of the list with a dirty hack and then complain that people hate your mod ?

Excuse me ? And further more, does X allow a competition-based gameplay ? Did you people have made things to make Tremulous (the whole bunch, not just X) better ?

For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good. If you make it, then I will admit that Tokio Hotel is better than Led Zeppelin.

Which I doubt.

[lucifer666s8n]

For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.

O so gametracker, which tracks almost every major game server is not proof enough... Are you delirious? Stay out of the sauce before you post... Might make more sense...

Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...

[F50]

Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.

Technically I cannot prove that you exist, however, Gametracker is at very least evidence that it is popular. Saying it is the most popular is perhaps going a bit far considering which servers (notably the official 1.2 servers) are not on that list, but I find your reaction a bit thoughtless.

Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...

They have not, but they *did* change the way the master server orders servers because of such abuse.

[SlackerLinux]

this is turning into quite an entertaining topic

might be time for a lock before it goes up to 10 pages of flame?

[F50]

Well there are some things that could be cleaned out of this thread, but even if it is flame, its still somewhat informative flame. And I'd like to see what the Xserver devs have to say about the motd request and the not-so-zero boxes.

[lucifer666s8n]

Locking this thread would only seem to prove my point. The voice of X, or anyone from it is, ridiculed and silenced. No one locked this thread http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=9996.60 And it was elitist attacks on our former owner. Sanity seems to be passed out sparingly in the Dark Legion feeding trough.

You want to know what the devs will say about the characters? Maybe if things were phrased less like four year olds losing a kick ball game screaming "Cheater Cheater" there might be a response.

Remove things from the thread? Wow... Cover the traces of stupidity and ignorance... We must not allow people to see what the true colors of losing server admins and slowly developed WONDERFUL GPP can be... (In case you cannot tell, the GPP comment was sarcasm)

It is informative... It shows how petty people with weak servers are... Elitism is a cold and lonely road... Hope the ride is comfortable.

[kevlarman]

For the moment, I can only say no. Prove me that a server very popular (#1 Gametracker lolololol qualityproof) is always good.

O so gametracker, which tracks almost every major game server is not proof enough... Are you delirious? Stay out of the sauce before you post... Might make more sense...

Dirty hack? Hmmm... Wow... The day trem.net denounces all the servers that have the extra characters in their name then you can say dirty... Till then stop the bull shit...

this has already happened in the past, the only reason the master doesn't do it now is the huge amount of effort it would take to enforce it.

[lucifer666s8n]

this has already happened in the past

Then why o master of Trem.nit is X attacked more than any other server? Make ALL of em do it if your that worried... Of course being as jealousy blinds people from common sense....

[janev]

I'll be different and just say I don't like your server.

Why?
- The modifications make my eyes bleed
- The people are retarded
- There are too many players to remain balanced in ranged vs melee combat
- It's called X
- You play there(this point came from reading this thread, not from playing there)

populated so it must be good?
- Meh, it's populated because it's populated. Some people* sort servers by player count when joining servers.
*I couldn't say most people because your counter to that would be a wall of text about unsubstantiated claims.

Jealous?
- Of what? I am not jealous of people who play world of warcraft... why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.

p.s someone make me a sig/petition to remove X from the master server. You know, just for shits and giggles
p.p.s If you are so sure you are doing it right, why are you trying to get validation here? You knew you are like the fat cousin nobody really likes, why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why?

[F50]

this has already happened in the past

Then why o master of Trem.nit is X attacked more than any other server? Make ALL of em do it if your that worried...

Woah, you've gone off the wall a bit your past couple posts. Go back to the beginning of the thread, don't loose track of the big picture here. The problem is not primarily/only with boxes

Because it's not tremulous, and it's lying to players saying it is.

X has nothing in common with trem gameplay wise, but it acts like it's vanilla trem, that's the main reason people hate it.

X might as well be a complete fork of actual tremulous, a fork that prevents newbies from playing the game that I have come to know and love.

The boxes thing is just adding insult to injury.

And it's only popular because it's at the top of the list.  Popularity and list position are basically the same thing.

Of course being as jealousy blinds people from common sense....

I'm starting to get tired of hearing this. On what basis do you make this assertion? I do not believe anyone has suggested that their favorite server should get the players from X. Enough with the ad hominem. You have asked why people dislike X, and have been answered. You have acknowledged some of the problems yourself. Do you believe X can do no wrong?

why are you trying to get validation here? ...why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why [people don't like X]?

[DraZiLoX]

Code:

[img]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2043/xserverssuck.png[/img]
Add this banner to your signature if you think xservers SUCK!

lol new cooler version

[UniqPhoeniX]

X servers SUCKS?

[lucifer666s8n]

I'll be different and just say I don't like your server.

Very well stated... Reasons you have that opinion are your opinions... Very personal answer... Thanks.... UNTIL

If you are so sure you are doing it right, why are you trying to get validation here? You knew you are like the fat cousin nobody really likes, why are you fishing for drama on these forums by asking why?

Read the posts... Validation is the farthest thing from my mind... I am sick of useless bile that is spit upon the XserverX admins when they post their server information and contact info... Just cause you dont like us doesnt mean you may attack our head admins just for shits and giggles... Unless of course I can do the same to every other server owner etc that lists here...

Woah, you've gone off the wall a bit your past couple posts. Go back to the beginning of the thread, don't loose track of the big picture here.

Ya I know.... Hard not to fall into the flamer trap... I apologize..

You have acknowledged some of the problems yourself. Do you believe X can do no wrong?

As far as 'doing no wrong' no one is at that level... Just as people attack GPP etc they attack X for the changes... Is there things they can fix? I Imagine there are some, (server list position can be fixed by the player themselves,

Some people* sort servers by player count when joining servers.

This is just one of the reasons we are attacked... I decided to look for evidence last night of other servers that boost their server position as we do being attacked... I did not find anything... You said AA was attacked, well, when Ozzy left he was wished a found farewell, when our guys (if they did) decided to post a farewell here they would get slammed again by the same bile, with 'good riddance' thrown in...

AS far as the reasoning behind X being attacked, the only thing that is a valid issue is MAYBE the act of not stating on the loading page that we are heavily modded... Hmm... Wonderland does not state is is... UBP doesnt, and most other servers with changed gameplay do not either...

why would I be jealous of your server. Both cases have about as much to do with tremulous.

Nice way to phrase a question with an attack there...  The only reason I suggest the existence of jealousy is the fact that our server is more successful than all the others, our game play seems to appeal to more people, than you guys are willing to admit... and we are attacked more than ANY other server that I have noticed. From just looking at the railing against us, it does appear as jealousy...

Example: Jimmy has 100 toys... Little Johnny has 2..... Little Johnny will be jealous of Jimmy...... Does that make sense?