1.2 Gameplay Changes going off topic :)

[Thorn]

Fight for 1.1 rights!
Who's up for forking a 1.1.1. own master server etc?

[kevlarman]

(I really hope you re-think the dragoon's pounce before you release 1.2...)

he already did :\

[KamikOzzy]

I support 1.1. My leet signature proves it. kthx!

If you hate the 1.2 balance changes, put this image in your signature:
http://cron.unvanquished.net/imgboard/src/1255747286279.png

This just made my day =D

[amz181]

omg i has sig :O

[amz181]

They simply aren't fun.

thats exactly how i feel. I would care if all the changes retained the fun of trem, but to me atleast, they dont.

[{7}wrath]

[deleted]

[Snake]

Removing hovel was a stupid idea, I use to hide and eat cookies!  :<

[Xeno]

How many people would be interested in playing 1.1.. with no S3, Adv. Goon at S2, shrunk dretch and mara, SD at 20 and creds for base kills..? That'd be something to try out and compare to 1.1 and 1.2 in terms of gameplay/balance/fun. 

[{7}wrath]

[deleted]

[Plague Bringer]

How the hell does THAT make sense, wrath? The fact that there is an argument demonstrates that there are supporters for and protesters against! Do you think that just because there was an argument about 'nam in the 60's that the support and the protest was equal? That the ideas of pulling out and staying in were both equally as good? That's most likely (read, quite definitely) one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. You will ALWAYS have arguments, and you will RARELY have an argument where both sides are equally valid. The statistics says that Tremulous 1.1 and "Tremulous" 1.2 have different levels of support. Also, it can be easily inferred that the development games are NOT, I repeat NOT, in any way shape or form a good or accurate representation of a public game. If the 1.1 master server goes down when 1.2 is released, there will be chaos, and the game will die. The learning curve for aliens is even more fucked up with the incredible lack of regeneration and the birth of alien base reliance. They are a pathetic race which will require proper handling to not die when assaulting human bases. Is anyone aware of why the balance issue is the way it is? It's a purely skill related balance issue, for any of you mindless punks who haven't realized. Newbies always go humans because aliens are so tough to control. Nerfing aliens was about the worst thing you can do. No one, and I repeat, no one, will want to play aliens on pub games anymore. It takes two seconds to get raped by turrets as a goon.
Two fucking seconds.
That's pathetic.

[mooseberry]

How the hell does THAT make sense, wrath? The fact that there is an argument demonstrates that there are supporters for and protesters against! Do you think that just because there was an argument about 'nam in the 60's that the support and the protest was equal? That the ideas of pulling out and staying in were both equally as good? That's most likely (read, quite definitely) one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while. You will ALWAYS have arguments, and you will RARELY have an argument where both sides are equally valid. The statistics says that Tremulous 1.1 and "Tremulous" 1.2 have different levels of support. Also, it can be easily inferred that the development games are NOT, I repeat NOT, in any way shape or form a good or accurate representation of a public game. If the 1.1 master server goes down when 1.2 is released, there will be chaos, and the game will die. The learning curve for aliens is even more fucked up with the incredible lack of regeneration and the birth of alien base reliance. They are a pathetic race which will require proper handling to not die when assaulting human bases. Is anyone aware of why the balance issue is the way it is? It's a purely skill related balance issue, for any of you mindless punks who haven't realized. Newbies always go humans because aliens are so tough to control. Nerfing aliens was about the worst thing you can do. No one, and I repeat, no one, will want to play aliens on pub games anymore. It takes two seconds to get raped by turrets as a goon.
Two fucking seconds.
That's pathetic.

Protip: Try throwing in some Hitler references too!

[gimhael]

It takes two seconds to get raped by turrets as a goon.
Two fucking seconds.
That's pathetic.

Funny, up to now people were complaining that the 1.2 turrets have been nerfed too much...

[KamikOzzy]

Protip: Try throwing in some Hitler references too!

Fuck you! This steals the fire from what I was gonna post, haha.

"So are you comparing our measly whining to a war in which thousands DIED!?!?!"

[Asvarox]

you mean milions, not only hamburgerigos died in ww2.

[KamikOzzy]

We're referencing 'nam.

[Grape]

nvm dont wanna flame for once gg

[temple]

Funny, up to now people were complaining that the 1.2 turrets have been nerfed too much...

Campers complain about the rets.  If you have played as aliens, you know that the turrets do nothing on approach but will, and I mean will, kill you before you can get out of range.  Attacking the human base is pretty much a kamikaze event now.  They start slow but they hit harder and farther so I can't escape them.  Throw in reduced regen for aliens and if you do manage to get out of the rets range, any human can gun down.

[{7}wrath]

[deleted]

[Plague Bringer]

The few forum goers who have remained active over the years are anticipating 1.2. Most players probably aren't even aware we have a forum.

[Bissig]

@tskuzzy: THANK YOU for the comment about the players who participate in the dev. games.

I've found that the majority of PUBLIC players merely camp more when adv goons come around because they feel the need to protect the RC/arm. Giving the aliens stronger classes quicker will only scare humans more and, thus, keep them in the base more. Sure, aliens will be able to destroy the bases, now, but that'll just lead to a shit tonne of wins and an imbalance favoring the aliens. Just throwing that out there.

When I hear barb splashes sinking my base, I go out and hunt the motherfuckers and yell at my teammates to do the same.

[Plague Bringer]

When I hear barb splashes sinking my base, I go out and hunt the motherfuckers and yell at my teammates to do the same.

To be fair, I've always went on the hunt and bitched at my team if they weren't as soon as I started seeing barbs flying. Unfortunately, that really doesn't do much, as most team mates don't listen, and those who would are probably hunting already.

[tskuzzy]

When I hear barb splashes sinking my base, I go out and hunt the motherfuckers and yell at my teammates to do the same.

Clearly you are not the "majority of public players" XD

[WiKi]

I just finished reading this thread... D;
The couple of times I have played on the development server it felt like a whole new game.. I would do the exact same thign I do in 1.1 but it will not work. I like some of the changes. I do not understand where some of the changes came from. I appreciate that the dev's did this on there own time not getting payed. But maybe for people who are new they do not know what is the difference between 1.1 and 1.2. but for veterans and people who have played this game for a good amount of time they feel the changes the worst. Also the people arguing are the people who have played the longest as well. I like 1.1 1.2 seems alot different. I have not been on these forums for very long. They may have been some topic for the players to suggest ideas for 1.1. Blade says the Norfenstein Mod. The Dev's say they tested them. But are you changing it for your preferences the Dev's? Or for other people to enjoy. In my persepective anyone who has an account and actually post something thoughtful and not nooby are much more important than new players. Another question. How long did it take to build the community on trem.net?

[tskuzzy]

I think every argument for and against 1.2 has already been made and I think its pretty clear that another overhaul isn't going to happen in the near future. Perhaps we should give 1.2 a chance and play it out for a while. As of right now, I don't like the changes but that doesn't mean I won't give it a chance. Everyone else should do the same too and if it just doesn't cut it, we can always voice our opinions for an upcoming 1.3 release or something.

There isn't any point in arguing any further considering how long 1.2 has been in the works. Nothing significant is going to happen at this point in time so there isn't anything to do except wait and see...

[Hendrich]

Its quite obvious the veterans or the ones most familiar to Tremulous prefer 1.1, because they have been playing for years (Or a year, depends). "Balance" isn't about on who's preferences it is, its about if everyone (Or the majority) agrees whether the changes work or not, and I believe the devs realized that.

1.2 has been in development for a long time, and during that time many of us were enjoying the current build, so its natural that some people feel strongly to some of the balance changes made. Players who aren't familiar with Tremulous that long obviously won't really care what happens, they just prefer an update, and from what it looks like, we might just get one.

As with what Tskuzzy said, we can't judge what isn't released, so its better to try and give out our input now and wait until more information is officially given.

[temple]

Its quite obvious the veterans or the ones most familiar to Tremulous prefer 1.1, because they have been playing for years (Or a year, depends). "Balance" isn't about on who's preferences it is, its about if everyone (Or the majority) agrees whether the changes work or not, and I believe the devs realized that

No

Speaking for myself, I've played Tremulous for 3 years.  I know the ends and the outs of damn near everything, read the source code, .h files.  I've seen every trick in the book.  I've played against every known player NA side that worth their salt.  

It is beyond easy to sniff out changes that will tilt balance.  When you play on both teams, you know what works and why.  When you change things, you change the balance.  These changes aren't benign and balance is usually razor thin.  Some of these changes will make easy for a human player and harder for an alien.  Throw in someone who's good now with the new humans and they will dominate.

Someone who is good at aliens will still be good.  But the people that are middle of road in terms of skill (like most players) will not cut it on the alien team.  On the human team, the average player will be better.  But this isn't a one sided game.  

There is no 'preference' unless you consider a one side game versus a balanced one a preference.

[{7}wrath]

I think we can all agree that we like some parts of 1.2: new weapon models, huds, animations, etc. I think we all also like shrinking barricades and some other things like that. I have changed my mind on most of the other stuff, though. I like 1.1 mostly the way it is. I don't know how 1.2's gameplay will work out, and I'm afraid of it. I'm also afraid of this entire argument, because it has the power to divide and destroy the entire community.


Open the pod bay doors, HAL. Lock this topic please, mods. I think until the beta is released, this topic can serve no further purpose, Dave.

[Hendrich]

Its quite obvious the veterans or the ones most familiar to Tremulous prefer 1.1, because they have been playing for years (Or a year, depends). "Balance" isn't about on who's preferences it is, its about if everyone (Or the majority) agrees whether the changes work or not, and I believe the devs realized that

No

Speaking for myself, I've played Tremulous for 3 years.  I know the ends and the outs of damn near everything, read the source code, .h files.  I've seen every trick in the book.  I've played against every known player NA side that worth their salt. 

It is beyond easy to sniff out changes that will tilt balance.  When you play on both teams, you know what works and why.  When you change things, you change the balance.  These changes aren't benign and balance is usually razor thin.  Some of these changes will make easy for a human player and harder for an alien.  Throw in someone who's good now with the new humans and they will dominate.

Someone who is good at aliens will still be good.  But the people that are middle of road in terms of skill (like most players) will not cut it on the alien team.  On the human team, the average player will be better.  But this isn't a one sided game. 

There is no 'preference' unless you consider a one side game versus a balanced one a preference.

A person "middle in the road" in what? Tremulous? In that case, then  someone as such is good at both sides. Besides, an average player can still play as an alien effectively, even if they're used to using a gun. I respect your experience and knowledge temple, don't just think that one human will dominate, Tremulous is a team game. Working together is much more important then skill. Even the lowly newbie who isn't that good at shooting can contribute immensely by taking care of structures, or joining and work in groups, etc. Balance will have to work in groups.

[amz181]

I think they should release 1.2 with 1.1 balance, and redo the whole dev server thing, and once we have a balance we all like, update with 1.25.

Thats seems the only way forward...

[Plague Bringer]

unfortunately for our ideas, 1.2 is being released as is.