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Author Topic: Download prompt committed  (Read 41340 times)
Risujin


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« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2009, 06:42:39 PM »

Wow, thanks Lakitu. I've been waiting for this to get in for two years! Better late than never, eh?
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Lakitu7
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« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2009, 07:20:55 PM »

UDP is useful if the webhost you're using as a mirror temporarily fails and starts 404ing people, or worse, giving the wrong version out. The version you get directly from the server is pretty much guaranteed to be the right one.
So I an in favour of keeping the option there, but also in favour of emphasising that cURL is crazy fast by comparison.
Hmm, the text are in the menu code, so there's not any particularly good way to only show (fast) and (slow) after the choices when both are there. Do you folks think it's confusing if you see "Download from server (slow)" or "Download from website (fast)" alone?

"Website" should probably be changed since it is not necessarily correct.
What would you suggest that is reasonably understandable to new players? "redirect" or "curl" or "http" are none of these, I think.

Wow, thanks Lakitu. I've been waiting for this to get in for two years! Better late than never, eh?
I wasn't going to let 1.2 happen without it. I think it's a strong candidate for one of the most important features for the longevity of the community.

Quote
<DevHC> where's the "these files may be a security risk. if you do not trust their contents, do not download them" notificaiton?
Probably I should do this too.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 07:23:59 PM by Lakitu7 » Logged
Bissig


Turrets: +103/-131
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2009, 12:29:29 AM »

Why is the dev community around Tremulous the only one too paranoid to accept automatic downloads without a big warning sign about its potential badness?
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kevlarman

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« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2009, 01:07:46 AM »

Why is the dev community around Tremulous the only one too paranoid to accept automatic downloads without a big warning sign about its potential badness?
because it already has been abused.
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Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----
ShadowNinjaDudeMan


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« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2009, 09:51:10 AM »

Who else read this and thought:

BOXMAPS FER ALL!!!


But, it is a really great advancement, and thank you
(Now as someone was mentioning earlier, about the menus...)
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 05:46:48 PM by khalsa, Reason: font TOO big » Logged

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Odin
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« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2009, 03:19:55 AM »

Who else read this and thought:

BOXMAPS FER ALL!!!


But, it is a really great advancement, and thank you
(Now as someone was mentioning earlier, about the menus...)
It's better than ATCS 24/7.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 05:47:03 PM by khalsa, Reason: font TOO big » Logged

ShadowNinjaDudeMan


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« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2009, 09:15:52 AM »

Point conceeded, nothing gets me raged quite like neverending monotonous ATCS

Great for 1 or 2 games, but as a small-ish map....
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danmal


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« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2009, 07:34:21 AM »

Hmm, the text are in the menu code, so there's not any particularly good way to only show (fast) and (slow) after the choices when both are there. Do you folks think it's confusing if you see "Download from server (slow)" or "Download from website (fast)" alone?

It's slightly confusing but it's better then not having them.

What would you suggest that is reasonably understandable to new players? "redirect" or "curl" or "http" are none of these, I think.

Website is somewhat misleading unfortunetally. It implies that you have to visit a website to download the maps which isn't the case at all. Having http with fast prominently displayed would be the best option in my opinion.

UDP is useful if the webhost you're using as a mirror temporarily fails and starts 404ing people, or worse, giving the wrong version out. The version you get directly from the server is pretty much guaranteed to be the right one.
So I an in favour of keeping the option there, but also in favour of emphasising that cURL is crazy fast by comparison.

These are fairly advanced user case scenarios in my opinion. Someone who is not computer/Trem literate will not understand why they see a different map/whatever to everyone else when playing due to a mismatch between server and local pk3s. The option can always be moved off the menu and into either a menu option or console command.

Also when you do encounter a 404 (or similiar) error it might be best to automatically fall back to using UDP while displaying a warning either in console or on the screen regarding what's happened.
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Undeference
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« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2009, 05:41:05 PM »

From the discussion in #tremulous-dev (not necessarily useful):
Quote
Undeference: it is actually not clear at all from that prompt that clicking anything will let you download
kevlarman: it's pretty much the same as all the other buttons in the menus, isn't it?
Undeference: not saying about the buttons not being distinct from anything else, but about it not being clear what exactly they do
Undeference: perhaps "Download from website" sends you to a website where you have to look for the right files to download
DevHC: the user, trying to find out what to do, clicks his head off until either finding the buttons or deciding to press teh ESC
Undeference: maybe something like "The server requires these files: ... Source: <toggle URL/UDP> ... Begin download ... Cancel" would be slightly better or worse or whatever
Khalsa: could do like urt "This server requires you to have file blah.pk3 <br /> Press any key to download from www.blah.com/blah.pk3 or press escape to cancel"
DevHC: OMG
Undeference: of course cl_allowdownload already specifies exactly how you want to download files so the prompt could be really simple like that
It would be nice if there were some agreement about what exactly it should say that 90%+ of people would understand and wouldn't scare off the other 10%. (It would also be nice if the same could be done for a warning about downloading untrusted files.)


Quote
Also when you do encounter a 404 (or similiar) error it might be best to automatically fall back to using UDP while displaying a warning either in console or on the screen regarding what's happened.
Also discussed, but I'm not going to quote that whole thing.
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Lakitu7
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« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2009, 06:09:37 AM »

One thing that's kind of off about even just putting (fast) and (slow) is that in a LAN situation, UDP would be preferred.
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Odin
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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2009, 06:29:24 AM »

One thing that's kind of off about even just putting (fast) and (slow) is that in a LAN situation, UDP would be preferred.
Then don't have a HTTP option in the prompt when joining LAN games.
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David
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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2009, 01:39:33 PM »

And how do we detect if it's lan?
EG at uni you could be on a different subnet, both using non-rfc1918 addresses, but still be on the same lan.
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SlackerLinux
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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2009, 02:00:29 PM »

if it was me i would have 2 links but the links would be

"Download" - like current behavior it'll try http then try server
"Download from Current Server( alternative. can be slow )" - provide downloading only from the server

or even get rid of the download from server option since 99pct of the time you will want to use the http option.
or maybe have a cvar to control where it gets the files like 1 for current behavior 2 http only 3 server only too many options on a menu will only confuse noobs
just my 2c now all we need is tremulous 1.2 to actually come out sometime this century.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:03:42 PM by SlackerLinux » Logged

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Patriotpie


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« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2009, 04:41:21 AM »

What an excellent idea. I concede that the current implementation of download options available to the client are displayed appropriately and efficiently. However, my agreement with the expressed opinions of those concerned with the sub-par menu system is made apparent by the attached menu system overhaul I proceed to proffer:
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danmal


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« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2009, 05:53:47 AM »

Honestly I think a dowload prompt similiar to UrT would solve most of the user interface problems. A cvar can always be used by the more advanced players to decide whether to download via http or game server.
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Odin
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« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2009, 11:05:46 PM »

And how do we detect if it's lan?
EG at uni you could be on a different subnet, both using non-rfc1918 addresses, but still be on the same lan.
dedicated 1 or 0
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MartinX3


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« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2009, 02:20:28 PM »

Already included in Tremfusion =D
I will use tremfusion for 1.2, too.
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Odin
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« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2009, 03:40:40 PM »

Already included in Tremfusion =D
I will use tremfusion for 1.2, too.
Good for you.
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your face
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« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2009, 03:49:37 PM »

Already included in Tremfusion =D
I will use tremfusion for 1.2, too.
Good for you.
Indeed, good for him, Mr. Ican'tsayanythingniceever.
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MartinX3


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« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2009, 07:29:50 PM »

Already included in Tremfusion =D
I will use tremfusion for 1.2, too.
Good for you.
Indeed, good for him, Mr. Ican'tsayanythingniceever.

I think Mr. Neverbenice don't like tremfusion. ^^
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seeeker


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« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2009, 08:21:49 PM »

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kevlarman

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« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2009, 08:48:14 PM »

a teamarena menu would be much more helpful than a png.
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Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----
Knowitall66

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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2009, 11:01:38 PM »

Where is the file size Angry
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kevlarman

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« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2009, 02:06:02 AM »

impossible to tell before trying to download.
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Quote from: Asvarox link=topic=8622.msg169333#msg169333
Ok let's plan it out. Asva, you are nub, go sit on rets, I will build, you two go feed like hell, you go pwn their asses, and everyone else camp in the hallway, roger?
the dretch bites.
-----
|..d| #
|.@.-##
-----
Knowitall66

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Oh well. If we fail, it's only death.


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« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2009, 02:21:31 AM »

damn :S
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Amanieu


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« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2009, 09:16:49 AM »

The server could send the size >.>
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wireddd


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« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2009, 08:17:46 PM »

actually the size should be in the header, you can just get that and it will tell you the size.
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MartinX3


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Posts: 193


« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2009, 10:17:02 AM »

Or we al use Tremfusion untill Trem1.2 came out.
And who like Tremfusion will not change it against the Trem 1.2 client. ^^
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KillerWhale
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I'm a whales


« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2009, 02:33:07 PM »

Martin, I'm sure the Tremfusion community appreciates your zeal, I don't think the devs are happy at the fact you're trying to direct people away from their hard(?) work.

Anyways, Seeeker's mockup looks pretty good to me, if Tremulous isn't getting a menu makeover.
As for file size, you could force it to be sent from the server, or you could just leave it without; a simple keystroke of "esc" will stop the download if you think it's too large.
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Archangel
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« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2009, 04:38:07 PM »

the filesize is already sent..     
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